Jan "Felicis Tredecim"
"I´m going back to the front to relax"
"THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT"
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!"
"When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!"
>Who would you say had the best one? Thinking of ships, weapons, sailors...
From what I've read, the Royal Navy had the highest level of proficiency, but the French ships were often of high quality as they pioneered scientific approaches to design (opposed to purely artisanal shipbuilding).
In the old boardgame "Wooden Ships & Iron Men", the Royal Navy certainly was depicted as more capable ship-per-ship. However, I remember one game where I discovered that the numerical strength of the French could be used to overwhelm the British in a boarding battle
I assume this was a fluke, or an artifact of the game, but the analogy to the Roman vs. Carthaginian battles with the Romans employing Corvi to fight a boarding battle and thus overcome superior Carthaginian seamanship still gave me food for thought ...
It was the British due to training and weaponry. It was considered that the French built the best ships but the equipment and training was below RN standards.
Nothing could compare to the Royal Navy. The major opposing fleets to the RN were the French, Spanish, Russian, Dutch and arguably the Danish.
The French were ill-equipped and poorly trained and in general could not compete with the British in single ship engagements. The French tried there best to avoid conflict with British ships. The British blokaded their fleet in ports anyway so they couldnt access the open sea.
The Spanish were similar to the French but to a worst extent. While like the French they held numerical superiority over the British their ships were old, poorly maintained and their crews quite poor.
The Russian probably offered the best opposition to the British, but although strains in diplomatic relations were allies with the British for the most part. Britain needed Russia as a trading partner as it supplied Britain with important flax and timber resources.
The Netherlands and Danish were fairly similar, both were well organised, equipped and well trained navies. However they featured to few a numbers to make a serious challenge to Britains absolute dominance of the sea.
Nothing could compare to Britains dominance and I think after a while the French realised this and focused almost entirely on its land armies. Britain relied on its navy for almost everything and was a large part of British society.
An interesting fact about the navies of the Napoleonic Wars is that the RN had one big advantage over the French and Spanish which has not been pointed out yet in otherwise accurate and informed posts. That big advantage was that the RN spent a great deal more time and money looking after the medical and nutritional needs of the crews of their ships unlike the Frogs and the Dons. Consequently their ships were more likely to be manned fully with healthier sailors than their adversaries. As far as naval architecture was concerned the French had a well deserved reputation although the fledgling US Navy surpassed everyone in the design of their frigates of the Constitution type. They could outfight anything they could not outrun and outrun anything they could not outfight.
Very good post Renrich and spot on. A crew in good health and morale was a very important factor and the British created a spirit that none of the other navies could.
The US were the only Navy which could really match it with the British, there smaller ships i.e Frigates and Sloops were very well built and the crew fought well. The US were obviously no challenge to British naval superiority and didnt really pose a threat worthy of concern, but they did win a few famous 1v1 battles with British ships, something the European powers could only dream of.
Renrich as i stated in my previous post the British placed a massive emphasis on their Navy, which helped ensure it was well crewed and equipped. While I dont have the figures atm (ill try get them later if people are interested) the British spent a huge proportion of their budget on the Navy compared to the French and Spanish. The Navy was an important part of british society.
A reenacted broadside showes the effect at an battery deck and the lethalety of the wooden fragments.
I have manuals which stated that full load 36 pdr. cast iron ball shots penetrate 1,00 meter of oak wood easiely and stuck 6 meter deep in an earth wall.
Please download the file to your desktop and then open it- directly choose "open" might cause trouble with the media player.
Last edited by genkideskan; 10-02-2007 at 07:30 AM.
Thank you Watanbe. I read a book some years ago about the age of fighting sail and it went into great detail about the British efforts at improving the health of their sailors. I believe it was stated that the nutritional and health benefits of the RN even made it easier to furnish crews for the ships as many men did not lead as healthy a life ashore. Also, sometimes the French and Spanish were unable to man all their ships because of a shortage of crew.
Jan "Felicis Tredecim"
"I´m going back to the front to relax"
"THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT"
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!"
"When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!"
The USN was very small during the Napoleonic Wars. It really did not achieve much growth until the Civil War and was not a world power, naval wise until Teddy Roosevelt's presidency about the turn of the century. In the early 1800s our navy was small but with very high quality frigates and sloops of war.
>As far as naval architecture was concerned the French had a well deserved reputation although the fledgling US Navy surpassed everyone in the design of their frigates of the Constitution type.
Good point, I forgot US Navy in my post. While the US were quantatively not in a position to take on the British ships-of-the-line in equal strength, qualitatively their frigates (and their frigate crews) were superlative.
By the way, does anyone remember the old C-64 game "Broadsides"? It was a real-time one-vs.-one simulation of Napoleonic era naval combat.
An outstanding game, considering the limitations of the medium!
Click on the screenshot with the overhead view to get an enlarged picture ... the battery configuration and status of both broadsides was displayed on the right, with the HMS Victory in the example having already lost a 42-pounder on the starboard side due to taking fire. You can also see the status of the rigging ... a couple of holes in the sails so far, but as the battle went on, you'd see yards and masts come down, with the ship losing speed and manoeuvrability as a result. Cannon and carronades, ball shot, chain shot, double shot, grape shot, fire at hull, rigging or crew, critical hits to masts or steering, visible splashes and hits when a broadside was fired, partial and complete dismasting, design-your-own-ship mode, a variety of ships for historical duels ... I loved that game. Victory vs. Constitution was actually a very well-balanced battle, with the frigate's manoeuvrability and speed making up for its lighter battery ...
Note the fencers locked in a deadly ... game of paper, scissors, stone
No matter what the odds were, the player who inadvertantly invoked the boarding mode by ramming the opponent would get chewed out thoroughly for as long as the boarding scene lasted - the game couldn't be aborted or continued when a boarding battle had begun!
As Renrich said, the US Navy had excellent ships and performed very well in small ship vs ship action. They never had the amount of vessels to offer any challenge to the RN. American frigates and sloops achieve a number of excellent victories against the British.
Another thing the USN didnt have at the time was ships of the line. While largely useless are rarely engagned in fighting these were important in dominating the sea. A powerful fleet led by ships of the line would ensure superiority. The British victory at Trafalgar assured Britain dominance of the sea for a long time.
Ive got some stats for Britains naval spending from Hornblowers Navy...Life at Sea in the Age of Nelson by Steve Pope...very good book
"Britain spent an average of 30 million pounds per annum on the Navy in the 22 years of war after 1793. This ammounted to 15% of British governments anuual expenditure by 1814. The prussian government only spent a total of some 6 million pounds each year."
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Napoleonic Wars navies.... 
Originally Posted by Lucky13
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