ZG 1, Italy and the Bf 110G-2?

[Lucky13]

Having bought the Eduard 1/48 Bf 110G-2 for the 5./ZG 1, Monte Covino, Italy - Summer, 1943, I was wondering, were they all camouflaged in the greys like S9+FN?

Did any of their '110's ever carry a desert camouflage with the wespe noseart?

[Maximowitz]

"Paging Evgeny, can Evgeny please answer the white courtesy phone...."

[Evgeny Velichko]

Yes, lucky, You are right.

Actually, all Daylight heavy fighters of G version (G-2), was painted in factory in 74/75/76.

When they come to regiments, they could just be mottled a bit, and theatre bands could be added. Thats all.

As for sand/broun sceme for Bf110, it seems that it produced many mistakes, even in colour profiles.

You know, in old colour photos, every colour (even RLM 76 blue/gray) will look a bit more yellow when there is a sand/rocks (yellow colours) on the background. This effect is often seen on III./ZG26 photos when it was baced in Greece, and of course in Africa. Also, there is severla pictures of Wespen in Italy, when 74/75 is more yellower as usual. After it, many artists paint theyr colour profiles with sand/broun colors instead of violetgray/greengray.

II./ZG1 when it was in Italy was equipped only with Bf110G-2. It had thin white fuselage band close to horisontal stabiliser, yellow RLM04 wingtips&engine colwing (oil radiator area), and usual Wespe emblem. So, S9+FN is correct, as Bf110G-2/Trop of 5./ZG1.

+EU is a 13./JG5 mashine, 1944. Yellow/black RVT band point on this.
+IN could be 5./ZG76 mashine, late 1943.

In 1944, ZG1, ZG26 and ZG76 got new style of RVT bands. It became wide (as You could se below), ZG1 got white band, ZG26 - red, and ZG76 - yellow.
2n+MN is for sure Bf110G-2 of 5./ZG1, 1944, Reich Defence.
m8+KM is for sure Bf110G-2/R1 of 4./ZG76, Reich defence. It is known that several Bf110G-2/R1 (with 3,7 sm cannon) were in test flights with 4./ZG76.

Wh

[Wurger]

Geat info here Evgeny.Thank you for that.

[imalko]

Echo Wojtek's post, great info Evgeny. One question though, how come that Bf 110s in 1943 in Italy had yellow wingtips? Wasn't this the feature only of the Eastern front aircraft at this time in the war?

[Evgeny Velichko]

Originally Posted by imalko

Echo Wojtek's post, great info Evgeny. One question though, how come that Bf 110s in 1943 in Italy had yellow wingtips? Wasn't this the feature only of the Eastern front aircraft at this time in the war?

II./ZG1 got this, as they got theyr new produced Bf110G-2's standing in Krasnodar, Kuban region, Osfront.

When they flew to Italy, they just overpainted fuselage band from yellow to white.

[Wurger]

[Lucky13]

Wow! Thanks a lot Evgeny, great info! Appreciated! I really, REALLY hope that the '110 will arrive before or on Saturday, eager to open the box and have a look!

[Erich]

actually according to stats the 3,7cm was used by all 3 defense units and the ZG 26 band was not wide but narrow to make difference between it and ZG1's II gruppe wide white band. (ZG 26 band was also white as well, photos confirm this) All three defense units experimented with a truck load of different cannon configs including outboard single 2cm waffen pods, and belly mounted 2-4 barrel 2cm and twin 3cm units; rockets well that is another story as the tech crews went crazy with further testing

[Lucky13]

Thanks Erich, appreciated! So, S9+FN could at some point in life have been equipped with something similar to what you see on +KM? Is that a single 37mm?

[Evgeny Velichko]

Originally Posted by Erich

(ZG 26 band was also white as well, photos confirm this)

Yep, You are right Also, I./ZG26 used numbers instead of letters on theyr Bf110's.

My memory mistake...

[Evgeny Velichko]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Thanks Erich, appreciated! So, S9+FN could at some point in life have been equipped with something similar to what you see on +KM? Is that a single 37mm?

II./ZG1 didnt used Bk3,7 in Italy.

Avtually, this cannon was first seen in action when 5./ZG1 got several aircrafts, in spring 43. Then, from those a/c was formed Pz.Jg.St./ZG1, under command of I./Zg1, and flew in Citadel operation, wich confirmed useless of this cannon for tank hunt.

Later in autumn 43, all survived crews and aircrafts of this Staffel were assigned to 4./ZG76.

“The gun was of 37mm and placed under the central fuselage of a Bf 110 for experimental tests to be conducted. These apparently proved satisfactory, a number of aircraft were similarly equipped and assigned to ZG 76 whose crews took them into action. With a total ammunition-round capacity of twenty-eight there was solid prospects for good results against the American bombers, given that the weapon’s accuracy using the aircraft gun sight was a much better guarantor of success than the 21cm rocket. In practise, however, the 37mm gun suffered from an unacceptable low rate of fire; approach to the bomber formations from the recommended rearward angle laid the Bf 110 open to sustained attention from the American tail gunners should the German pilot hold position long enough for his shots to start registering on a specific B-17 or B-24. In addition, the sub-zero temperatures at operational altitude interfered with the smooth functioning of the gun. (According to German records (1) the 37mm was never put into series production, and only a limited number of aircraft were to be assigned to ZG 76. The advent of the American escorts and their depredations upon the Bf 110 finally ensured the weapon’s exclusion from the Reichsvertedigungs operations)”

[Lucky13]

Right, cheers Evgeny, appreciated! Any idea what other weapon pods could be found on the ZG1 '110's in Italy, appropiate for their machines?

[Evgeny Velichko]

As they flew ground attack missions mainly, so it must be underbelly bombrack and wing bombracks.

[Erich]

Evgeny : according to the losses listing of I./ZG 26 of which I own it was only on the air battle of December 11, 1943 when the I. gruppe started to use coloured numerals. In October/November of 1943 they were still using the two letter code.

E ~