B-17 camouflage (3 Viewers)

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Interesting - B-17 colors specification
This link does mention a primer.
''Air Corps Spec. 24114 ( 22 Oct. 1940) included primers for the new camouflage finishes. These and the camouflage requirements were....
AC. 14080 Primer, Metal, Zinc Chromate ( yellow or green)
AC. 14105 Lacquer, Cellulose Nitrate, Camouflage. (metal)
AC. 14106 Dope, Pigmented Nitrate, Camouflage,. (fabric)'
'
 
I've gone back to this panel for a closer look and lifted a flake of loose paint from the edge. Bear in mind this is a stainless-steel panel, not aluminium.

Panel1b.jpg


There is a spray-painted coat of OD FS34084 directly onto the metal, there is no primer coat underneath.
On top of this is a brush-painted coat of OD FS34086, with lumps and runs.
I'd guess this top coat was field-applied at some point.

I also have a section of B-17G-1-VE wing de-icing boot fairing which is factory-painted OD over Zinc Chromate primer on the outside face, bare primer on the inside face.

MAw3.jpg


All the best,
PB
 
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An example of the color on a B-17G.
This machine served also in Africa and some people say it had a special 'afro camo'. I have never heard about such a scheme.
So is it something special or it used to be Olive Drab once too?
 

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The area immediately around the upper radio room hatch certainly looks as if it might once have been a 'sand' colour Roman. But, like you, I haven't heard (or seen) of any B17s painted in such a scheme. Without physically seeing the surface, it's difficult to give an accurate opinion, but it looks like either very faded OD (especially if it's been in the ground for some time), or perhaps even primer - but there doesn't appear to be any flakes of surface paint over it if it is primer.
One thing though; in the photo, it looks like the upper, bare metal section is from a different aircraft, and possibly the same, aft section of the hatch opening as the lower section, but missing the internal structure. Or perhaps it is just the forward, internal frame, missing the outer panels?
 
An example of the color on a B-17G.
This machine served also in Africa and some people say it had a special 'afro camo'. I have never heard about such a scheme.
So is it something special or it used to be Olive Drab once too?

In North Africa the USAAF used Specification 14057-A/C- Bulletin 48 May 1942 Sand 26 (FS 34133) or HQ Northwest African Air Forces March 1943 Sand No.3 (FS 30277) for camouflage. Sand 26 is a pinkish buff, Sand No.3 greyish.
 
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In North Africa the USAAF used Specification 14057-A/C- Bulletin 48 May 1942 Sand 26 (FS 34133) or HQ Northwest African Air Forces March 1943 Sand No.3 (FS 30277) for camouflage. Sand 26 is a pinkish buff, Sand No.3 greyish.

That´s very interesting info that I´ve never seen before. Thank you!
Don´t you have an original of this document?
 
This will keep you busy for a long time.
 

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I doubt if desert camouflage schemes were ever applied at the factories apart from the British Desert Scheme on P-40s etc.

An example of the end user modifying the basic camouflage scheme as applied on the production line were two or more P-40 squadrons, the 314th and 315th that were part of the 324th Fighter Group. They reached the Western Desert in December 1942. By this time the USAAF Desert Scheme of Sand, Specification 14057 Shade No 26 on the uppersurfaces and Neutral Gray on the Bulletin 41 Shade No. 43 on the undersurfaces was in evidence.

The Sand finish had been authorised earlier in the year and appears to have been applied over the P-40s production Dark Olive Drab 41 uppersurface finish. Many aircraft would appear to have had their radio call numbers overpainted by this Sand finish which extended onto the spinners. It is possible that P-40s finished in British camouflage on the uppersurfaces might have had their camouflage altered to Sand 26.

Despite the USAAF having some of its P-40 in the British Desert Scheme and others in the USAAF Desert Scheme, HQ Northwest African Air Forces made the decision to change the camouflage to all the aircraft in its command during March 1943. The new basic camouflage scheme was Field Drab Specification T1213 No 4 and Olive Drab Specification T1213 No 9 on the upper surfaces with the undersurfaces being finished in a pale blue made by mixing one eighth of a pint of Blue Spec 3-1 No 307 with one gallon of white.

A series of diagrams was issued suggesting how the new colours should be applied. There were four further variations on the upper surfaces colours depending on whether the terrain the aircraft was based upon was judged to be red, yellow, green, or light sand in nature. In all cases the undersurfaces were to be the same mixed pale blue as above. The uppersurface colours which are listed by their Spec T1213 name and number were as follows.

Red

Colour A: was to be made by mixing equal parts Earth |Yellow No 6 and Earth Brown No 5.
Colour B: Earth Brown No 5.

Yellow

Colour A: was to be made by mixing two thirds Earth Yellow No 6 with one third Field Drab No 4.
Colour B: Earth Brown No 5


Green

Colour A: Light Green No 1.
Colour B Olive Drab No 9.

Light Sand (desert)

Colour A: Sand No 3.
Colour B: Sand No 3 (if the area was sand coloured), or, Field Drab No 4, (if the area was spotted).

This thought to be only instance of a theatre-wide change to the USAAF camouflage scheme and is believed to be the result of the aggressive response made by the Germans to the Allied advance towards Tunisia. This involved many attacks against Allied air bases and thus the need to modify the camouflage of the aircraft to make them less conspicuous whilst on the ground under varying local conditions.
 
Antoni, I went thru all the articles you posted here yesterday and if I got it right the main change in OD specification was made in 1943 when they change it from OD41 (green shade) to T1213 No 9 (brown shade). Correct me if am I wrong.
So what do you think about the color of the radioperator section I´ve posted?
Is it a sand color or T1213 No 9 faded away?
Thank you again for your articles. Very interesting reading although the more details I have the more questions come to my mind :)
Can you tell me please from which magazine (and its issue) are the articles? Thank you.
 
The colour looks like Sand 26 to me.

Articles are from Scale Aircraft Modelling. Timestamp on the scans Oct 2008. I cannot remember now which issues, probably year 2000 or 2001.
 
Thank you Tony! As they say in the articles- more info = more confusion:|
Anyhow- as for the color on the picture- light brown- here is an answer from another forum:
As 42-31885 was a G-30-BO it would have been camouflaged at the factory in the standard Olive Drab / Neutral Grey; as it was not assigned to a combat group (99th) until Feb. 1944 ( and by that time the B-17 groups were in Italy) it's highly unlikely that it would have had any of the African schemes.
B-17 colors specification
 

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