RAF Markings and Camouflage (2 Viewers)

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This would be the only one I have on British jets. This one from the book Camouflage and markings RAF Northern Europe 1939-45. Volume 11
 

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As Alex said, great stuff guys!

Dragonsinger, i have a little bit of info on the DH 108 I can send you. Drop us your postal address in a PM if you're interested.

And Wojtek, if I send you some camouflage plans for the Fairy battle, could you post them on the thread for me?
 
Micdrow,Wurger, Heinz,
Correct Aircraft but it looks like the Air Ministry ordered a specific set of positions for the markings on each type of aircraft so unless I can find out what was issued for the Swallow it looks like back to good old fashioned guestimation. Where did you guys find the Air ministry directives for these aircraft? Because that look like the only place that I'll get accurate info. This is embarrasing 'cause I did a spell in the dope shop spraying Buccaneers and I only ever had to duplicate the markings already there.:oops: Besides as someone has already pointed out Fleet Air Arm cammo sucks. Oh and belive me! if you paint up two or more models you do not need the same paint batch. We never had it so there was always some minor(?) variation.
Pictures?
Prototype One where you can see the fixed leading edge slats and anti-spin drogue parachute housings.
Prototype Two.
Prototype Three with the extended nose and faired in cockpit.
Got plenty more pics but no colour ones.
If you want to build one modify from a Venom 'cause that's how the originals were built. Nice to know plywood went supersonic. OH yes it did but it killed the pilot.
Plans Anyone?
 

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Where did you guys find the Air ministry directives for these aircraft?

The pictures I posted where found in a variety of places. Some on the Internet and I save them. There is a series of books called camouflage and marking by aircraft type that you can find the info in. The book with the jet is posted in its message. As far a I know there is no single source of info with all the directives for aircraft camo by aircraft type. Maybe som one else knows of a book. Hope that helps.
 
Thanks Micdrow.
Of course it helps and I am gratefull for the time you, or anyone, takes to answer the queries posted here. I always think that questions and answers should appear on BBs like this as it achieves the maximum spread of information and often friendships even if we never meet physicaly.
Occasionaly the info duplicates something we already have, but that doesn't matter, it's the principal of sharing that counts.
Keep up the good work.:D
Regards
Dragonsinger
 
I agree with Micdrow totally.There isn't one source about the camouflage matter.My sources are a book about the RAF camo patterns concerning the Polish Air Force in GB during the WW2 and a series of articles in "Skrzydlata Polska" magazine about the camouflages of different Air Forces.I hope this really helped you.
 
Here's some info on the Fairey Battle, which also applies to a number of other early RAF types (Wojtek kindly scanned the pictures accompanying the article and will post them in a seperate post - thanks mate!)

RAF Battle Camouflage and Markings
By Ian D.Huntley (Scale Aviation Modeller International – June 2001)

Between the Wars Light/Medium Bomber Finish

The prototype Battle K4303 (F.2121) appeared first in March 1936 in unpainted form, and with red primer (shrink dope) on fabric control surface areas. After it's first flight it was to receive an overall Aluminium dope covering in a very fine matt form, being the peacetime finish for all but heavy Night Bombers and Training aircraft, but already 'camouflage' diagrams were being prepared by the Ministry for all new Expansion Programme types. The Alumimium top coat medium was in fact the new Cellon 'X' finish. National markings were in Bright Red, White and Blue, positioned at the extreme wingtips, and on the fueslage at the wing root fairing location.
The registration was marked in Night in eight-inch characters on the rear fueslage and on the rudder surfaces. Much later it was applied in large 36-inch characters on the undersurface of the wing parallel to the trailing edge line. Standard W/T bonding marks, component serials , factory inspection marks, AID stampings, and finish markings, appeared in all relevant locations, also in Night.
Strangely, and possibly with the exception of the Belgian order for 16 Battle airframes, the common Fairey practice of marking the factory 'F' number adjacent to the fueslage registration was not applied to the Battle, the 'F' number appearing only as a stamping on an identity plate within the pilot's cockpit.
Internal finish including cockpit and wheel well areas, was a Grey Green colour, being a commercial metal primer Cerrux MP4, a light khaki-green close to FS 595a 34259.
Appearing in much modified form and in public for the first time in June 1936, K4303 received the numeral '4' in Night ahead of the fueslage roundel on each side as seen in the New Types Park at the RAF Display, Hendon.

Complicated Camouflage Designs

Camouflage in a new matt material, was an entirely new issue for the Hayes drawing office who were presented initially with a Systems Installation Scheme (SIS.10) issued by the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE), South Farnborough, in about March 1936, showing in very precise detail a two-colour, very convoluted demarcation, upper and side surface pattern, illustrated in a number of colour combinations, showing Land Scheme (L.1), with four schemes; A,B,C,D.
The complication was that although only one pattern and it's mirror image (handed) was drawn, with the transposition of the two colours, two further schemes emerged making four in total. Hayes, after discussions with Stockport, was fairly quick to point out the possible production bottleneck which might result iin dealing with four schemes in the paint shop, but were informed in a subsequent reply (Circular Letter No.457: Dated 9th April 1936), that in a coloured Air Diagram issue expected to become available in may 1936 as Air Diagram (AD) 1158, and to be titled 'Camouflage Scheme for Single Engine Monoplanes – Medium Bombers', that two of the schemes were only considered as 'optional'.
These were however faithfully redrawn as Works Drawings giving Scheme 'A' and 'C' for aircraft with even registrations, and Scheme 'B' and 'D' for odd registrations, and submitted back to the Ministry for approval. However in the Hayes Drawing Register only two schemes can be accounted for, and certainly by early 1939, Issue 2 of the (coloured) Air Diagram only Scheme 'A' and 'B' were shown, evidence being borne out by contemporary photographs.

Production Paint Shop Problems

Handing of the pattern however did not follow precisely the odd and even sequences as machines were subsequently painted two at a time with identical patterns/colours. Again, during production machines became out of factory sequence numbering, and although handing continued that too often ran out of sequence, an event that also applied to many Austin-built machines.
An interesting feature of the camouflage was that the area of decking underneath the glazed canopy section between the cockpits was always in Dark Earth regardless of the handing.
The undersurfaces were in Night initially restricted almost entirely to the undersurface areas with hardly any Night showing on the lower side surfaces. Later the Night was extended upwards to a 60 degree angle of demarcation which also included much of the radiator bath sides. The regristation was marked in large white characters angled to follow the trailing edge line as in the prototype, though with later production aircraft the characters were set in a line perpendicular to the machine centreline.
With camouflage came a different location for the wing roundels, now set inboard from the wingtip at some one third of the span from tip to centreline of the machine, and whilst the standard Red, White and Blue roundel remained as the national identity marking, camouflaged aircraft had the addition of an outer Yellow ring added at the same band width as those of the existing colours. These markings were also in a matt finish, the camouflage colours being of dull form.
Internal finish was Grey Green primer including the cockpit areas, with instrument panels and consols in Night. The pilot's seat was an anodised aluminium finish with a brown leather backrest.
No reference has yet been found which details whether the prototpe K4303 (F.2121) , or the first production machine K7558 (F.2316) received camouflage first? The latter machine bearing the scheme took to the air for the first time at Ringway on 14th February 1937. Likewise no photograph has yet been found which showed the prototype in camouflage?

Service Markings

Entering service with No.63(B) Squadron RAF in May 1937, the unit, which did not have it's full compliment until the end of the year, was closely followed by No.105(B) and No.226(B) Squadrons. These early units initially marked their identity in approximately 15-inch white numerals on fueslage sides midway long the canopy length, adding a smaller 6-inch sized individual aircraft letter, first on the cowling, and later to a 15-inch size on the fueslage side well aft of the roundel.
The style and form of these markings roughly followed a style of character issued by the Ministry in May 1931 though the proportions were not closely followed. Thus by the early Summer of 1938 the Ministry set a standard form which for the Battle amounted to 27-inch characters with the unit numerals ahead of the fueslage roundel and individual aircraft letter aft of the roundel. This edict applied also to heavy bomber units with proportionally enlarged characters. The colour used for these markings was Medium Sea Grey.
A further service addition was often that of 'FIRST AID' in two lines, in some two-inch high Red characters on the the fueslage port side just below the gunner's canopy.
A requirement was the addition of an 18-inch square gas detection paint applied generally on the rear fueslage decking just ahead of the fin marked with the diagonal of the square parallel to the fueslage centreline, the square was often thinly outlined in Night.
Hardly had this overall form taken effect when the Munich Crisis of August 1938 set the precedent that all operational aircraft of the RAF replaced any evidence of unit identity with code letters, and had changed national identity markings to the Red and Blue (night roundel) form. Registrations were also painted out. By October when the crisis had passed a return of registrations was made, but as far as operational aircraft were concerned those on the underwing were not replaced.
 
The Phoney War

With mobilisation on 24th August 1939, all code letters were changed and any underwing registrations that existed were painted out as was any other 'heraldic' form of unit identity. Many Battle units were flown to France to support the British Expeditionary Forces in the form of the Advanced Air Striking Force (AASF), the first two units flying out on 2nd September.
By November 1939 the Red, White and Blue roundel had been introduced for fueslage sides and recognition problems in France led to the addition of 'striping of the vertical tail surfaces' as decreed by the French authorities. This presented a problem initially as the Directorate of Operational Requirements would not permit the rudder to be painted (for balance purposes), thus was adopted at first a 21-inch overall width band of the three identity colours (Red forward), set full height against the fin post. At the same time for safety purposes Red, White and Blue roundels were added at the under surface wing tip to protect against French ground fire. Later the striping in some cases became as overall 27-inch width with restricted height.
Unlike RAF fighters in France, the Battle units retained their coding in full though interestingly the censors obliterated most unit markings in photographs publishd in UK aero-magazines and newspapers of the time.

The Battle At Home

Whilst production orders for the bomber Battle continued to mount, the first producton Target Tug types began to leave the lines in early March 1940. These machines began life in overall Yellow with diagonal Night banding, the finish being in semi-gloss form to aid performance.
At a slightly later time the Turret Trainer, and the Dual-Seat trainer were evolved and whilst these were on the drawing board stage in mid 1939, they were scheduled for an overall Yellow finish. The war situation however caused the addition of standard camouflage to be applied on the upper and side surfaces, the latter forming a straight line demarcation with the Yellow parallel to the thrust line of the machine. A later consideration added a similar scheme to be applied to the Target Tug version. All of these non-operational role machines carried underwing registrations.
In May 1940, all Battle units, regardless of role, added striping over the full fin area angled in line with the fin post, and almost immediately followed with an outer Yellow ring to the fueslage roundel.

Battle Engine Test-Bed Airframes

These machines followed the standard camouflage form of contemporary camouflage including underwing registrations, and obviously without service additions. Machines often flew temporarily with cowling panels in primer Grey Green. As it was, the Fairey P.24 'Monarch' 'double-engine' installed in Battle K9370 (F.2958 ) had a most impressive performance and could out perform the Hurricane in the climb, and in November 1941 when the US authorities asked for the engine to be shipped to Wright Field, the decision was made to ship the complete machine, and it received a Sky Grey undersurface and US 'Star' identity markings. K9370 eventually returned to the RAF during 1943.

National Identity Markings Updates

With the Battle being removed from first line duties from mid-1940 (with the exception of No.98 Squadron, transferred to Coastal Command *, and based in Iceland), and relegated largely to training duties, changes in national identity markings, and in particular to those affecting the fin striping were not always made at the required time.
Many Battles retained the whole area fin striping long after the mid-June 1940 change to full height , narrow stripes each 5-inches in width. In fact even that form was in many cases not cut down in height as required some four weeks later, and in many cases it was a matter of months before the standard 24-inch by 27-inch height flash was commonly seen, when the introduction date was 12th December 1940.
Such Battles still in sevice in 1942 adopted the new-style roundel and fin flash as soon as possible after the 6th May date of change. The Battle was taken out of Bombing and Gunnery School service late in 1945, however it was finally phased out of all remaining navigation and 'hack' duties during 1949.

Note * Reputedly overpainting Dark Earth with Extra Dark Sea Grey and having Sky undersurfaces. (From recovered Austin-built L5343 during 1972)

Extra dark Sea Grey: Stores ref. 33B/225/6/7; FS 595 36118 and Methuen 21F3.
Sky: Stores ref. 33B/320/1/2; FS 595 34424 and Methuan 30(B-C)2.

List of Finishing Materials to Specification D.T.D 83A

Column A: Ref.No.
Column B: A:M Colour Name
Column C: Stores Ref. No. Section 33B
Column D: Approx F.S.595 No. Added 18.04.70 for US reference
Column E: Methuen

Internal Finish:

1. Night 186,187,188
2. Grey Green Primer 34258 27D3
3. Aluminium 118,119,120

Camouflage Colour:

4. Dark Green 183,184,185 34096 30(F-G)2
5. Dark Earth 180,181,182 30118 F(E-F)4
6. Night 186,187,188

Identification Colours:

7. Ident. Red, Dull 73,74 330 30109 8D7
8. Ident. Blue, Dull 69,70 327 35044 20(F-G)5
9. Ident. White 75,76 331
10. Ident. Medium sea Grey* 157,389 345 36440 22D3
11. Ident. Yellow 77,78 156 33538 (4-5)A8
13. Ident. Red, Bright 4 31105 10 S 8
14. Ident. Blue, Bright 3 35056 20 E 8

*Pigmented Oil Varnish, Matt
 
As I was asked by Evan for uploading some materials that he sent me earlier,I post here these.I do it with my pleasure.Unfortunately the fourth pic has to be quite big in size in order to be readable, so I have had to make an archive.I hope these look like you wanted Evan and you are glad of them.:D

:wave:
 

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It is a good idea Paul.Go ahead.:D

Have you had any problems with unziping or opening the "Battle material 4.zip" file?
 

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