Foreign Aircraft in Japanese Markings

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Marshall_Stack

I was curious why the KI-61 had such problems with the engines overheating. If they used the DB engine (license), why didn't they just copy the coolant system?

Sometimes its not only the cooling system causing overheating problems, it depends on the cowling and how the baffling is installed around the engine to allow adequate airflow.

[Micdrow]

Here you go, some of the Fw-190 pics I have from a variety of places and sources.

[DBII]

CCheese, I would guess that it is a Vegas tail. Thanks for sharing syscom3. I always like seeing plans in different markings.

DBII

[Micdrow]

Originally Posted by ccheese

In the above pic with the bf108.... is that a P-38 tail on the left ? Or could it
be another Lockheed aircraft. Hudson, Vega ???

Charles

Hi Charles

Very close, I believe this is a Kawasaki Army Type 1 Freight Transport Ki-56

A number of Lockheed 14s where shipped to Japan in 1938. Lockheed sold the manufacturing rights in 1938 to Japan. It was built in Japan by the Kawanishi Company.

[Micdrow]

Also some people dont know this but in the beginning the Japanese used Italian Br20's before Japanese bombers were brought over to China.

[CPWN]

You guys forget He112 and He100. The two planes also been sent to Japan.

[ppopsie]

Apologies. He112:A7He1, Seversky 2PA-B3:A8V1 Both were given formal IJN designations. What were the others? DC-4E.

[Micdrow]

Top one is from the book of the squadron signal He 112 and the Dc-2 from the book Japanese aircraft by Rene J Francillon

[merlin]

Originally Posted by syscom3

Study of the Bf109 in Japan led to the design of the formidable Ki-61 Hein.

No, it didn't!

To William Green:
The only Japanese fighter powered by a liquid-cooked engine to see operational sevice, the Kawasaki KI.61 Hien (Swallow), was mistakenly believed to be a licence-built version of the Messeschmitt Bf 109, when it was first encountered by the Allies over New Guinea, in April 1943. In fact the design of the Hien was influenced in no way by the Messerschmitt fighter, the first prototype having flown six months before the arrival in Japan of an example of the Bf 109 from Germany.
It was though "exhaustively tested in mock-combat with the Bf 109E and captured examples of the P-40E, and were generally consideredd by the japanse to be superior to both German and American fighters in nearly all respects".

[Haztoys]

Originally Posted by merlin

No, it didn't!

To William Green:
The only Japanese fighter powered by a liquid-cooked engine to see operational sevice, the Kawasaki KI.61 Hien (Swallow), was mistakenly believed to be a licence-built version of the Messeschmitt Bf 109, when it was first encountered by the Allies over New Guinea, in April 1943. In fact the design of the Hien was influenced in no way by the Messerschmitt fighter, the first prototype having flown six months before the arrival in Japan of an example of the Bf 109 from Germany.
It was though "exhaustively tested in mock-combat with the Bf 109E and captured examples of the P-40E, and were generally consideredd by the japanse to be superior to both German and American fighters in nearly all respects".

Man I'm going to have to have more nay sayers on that one ..It may have not been a "licence-built" ..But the Japanese were sure the rip off king of other countrys designs at that time...And the DB German motor ..Is sure its on animal..Theres a Japanese two seat (or maybe three) seat bomber that used the motor too..Forgot the name of the plane ..And theres the carcass of one out here in Arizona..It sure looks to be a DB German nock off..

[Micdrow]

Originally Posted by Haztoys

Man I'm going to have to have more nay sayers on that one ..It may have not been a "licence-built" ..But the Japanese were sure the rip off king of other countrys designs at that time...And the DB German motor ..Is sure its on animal..Theres a Japanese two seat (or maybe three) seat bomber that used the motor too..Forgot the name of the plane ..And there's the carcass of one out here in Arizona..It sure looks to be a DB German nock off..

Other than the engine, the Ki-61 is a totally different animal. The engine basically is a DB-601A engine which Japan successfully negotiated with Germany . The Japanese version of this engine is designated the Ha-40. The aircraft shows the strong influence in engine engineering from that of Dr Vogt on his Japanese pupils. For those that don't know Dr Richard Vogt he was a German engineer who became the Chief Designer for Blohm and Voss.

Later the Japanese engineering team made a more powerful engine called the Ha-140 but due to lack of skilled workers the Ha-140 very rarely gave full power. Also the crank shaft was found to be weak and the engine also suffered from teething troubles. Matters for the aircraft got worse when on 19 January 1945 the US Air force destroyed the Akashi engine plant.

Also note the placement of the radiator for the cooling of the engine which is center line compared to the Messerschmitt which is in the wings of the aircraft. Also the landing gear which show that they retract toward the fuselage unlike the Messershmitt that retracts towards the wing tips. Then there is the canopy. Bf-109 opens to the side while the Ki-61 slides backwards. There are more differences but those are the quick ones to identify.

In short if you start to break down the Ki-61 and the Bf-109 they are totally different aircraft except for the engine.

[Micdrow]

Top picture is a Bf-109E and the other is a Ki-61. Remember also that this is basically the same engine as the Db 601A. There for the enginers did not have a lot of choices on how the front of the aircraft would look. One of the reasons why it resembles so much like a Bf-109

[merlin]

Originally Posted by Micdrow

Other than the engine, the Ki-61 is a totally different animal. The engine basically is a DB-601A engine which Japan successfully negotiated with Germany . The Japanese version of this engine is designated the Ha-40. The aircraft shows the strong influence in engine engineering from that of Dr Vogt on his Japanese pupils. For those that don't know Dr Richard Vogt he was a German engineer who became the Chief Designer for Blohm and Voss.

Later the Japanese engineering team made a more powerful engine called the Ha-140 but due to lack of skilled workers the Ha-140 very rarely gave full power. Also the crank shaft was found to be weak and the engine also suffered from teething troubles. Matters for the aircraft got worse when on 19 January 1945 the US Air force destroyed the Akashi engine plant.

Also note the placement of the radiator for the cooling of the engine which is center line compared to the Messerschmitt which is in the wings of the aircraft. Also the landing gear which show that they retract toward the fuselage unlike the Messershmitt that retracts towards the wing tips. Then there is the canopy. Bf-109 opens to the side while the Ki-61 slides backwards. There are more differences but those are the quick ones to identify.

In short if you start to break down the Ki-61 and the Bf-109 they are totally different aircraft except for the engine.

Yes, I agree with your post. Excellent extra info. And, of course with the demise of the Akashi engine plant, there were a lot of Ki-61's about with no hope of a liquid cooled engine. Hence, with such a need - using a big (4' dia radial) the excellent Ki-100 was borne.

[Marshall_Stack]

Originally Posted by Micdrow

Top one is from the book of the squadron signal He 112 and the Dc-2 from the book Japanese aircraft by Rene J Francillon

Is it me or does it appear that the props on the Japanese DC-3 appear bent?

[Micdrow]

Originally Posted by Marshall_Stack

Is it me or does it appear that the props on the Japanese DC-3 appear bent?

Yeah the picture in the book does show the props bent but I have no clue what happened. Kinda weird though as they are bent forward and not backwards.