Luftwaffe Aircraft Camouflage and Markings - Page 2 - Aircraft of World War II

Wurger · 01-23-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBII

I always wondered why the LW had so many camo patterns .....

DBII

To be honest it is not true.The RLM rules stated clearly how LW planes had to be painted.There were basic camo patterns for all kind of planes both fighters and bombers( used at hight and day),etc...also the desert one.But the war conditions forced the technical crews to adjust these patterns to the battle field needs.What is more, at the end of war there were huge problems with all in Germant so they had to use what they had.

DBII · 01-23-2008, 06:05 PM

Thanks, I understand now

DBII

Wurger · 01-23-2008, 06:11 PM

U are welcome.

If you need somethig more feel free to ask.

Njaco · 01-23-2008, 07:23 PM

Don't know why the link doesn't work. This one was interesting.

Luftwaffe Camouflage

wilbur1 · 01-24-2008, 12:18 AM

Do you ever wonder if it actually worked? and i mean all the time, sometimes i can easily see but what about now? wait im sorry i just realised what i wrote...sorry guys i've been drinkin since 1600 sorry didnt mean to intrudde buuurrrpppp

Wurger · 01-25-2008, 04:47 PM

So dear Wilbur1 don't drink so much, because you could sign something what could be used against you.

Njaco it is a nice link to a nice site.

THX

Wurger · 01-26-2008, 10:13 AM

As Charles has suggested here some LW markings used for markings of Gruppen,commanders etc...

utbresearch · 02-26-2008, 06:01 PM

Hi everyone,

Great thread. I'm wondering about Luftwaffe camouflage and markings during the Siege of Malta, specifically the JU-88s and BF Me-109s. As they were re-assigned from the eastern front to Malta, would they have been repainted the tropical camouflage of their North African counterparts? Would that have happened immediately at the beginning of that campaign or gradually throughout?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Njaco · 02-28-2008, 11:08 PM

I thought Charles might have meant emblems. Too many to post but these links show a few. Unsure if most are correct.

Luftwaffe Emblems

LW - Geschwader

Luftwaffe Emblems Part 1: Fighters

Wurger · 03-02-2008, 12:53 PM

Possible you are right.Nice sites that can come in handy.

A4K · 03-04-2008, 11:07 AM

Some great info guys! I agree with Wojtec regarding the use of available colours, but I think natural fading of paints and repair touch-ups would also account for shade variations seen in many photos.

I once read an account of a US WW2 fighter being restored in the states (can't remember what it was), and apparently 8 different shades of Zinc Chromate were found throughout the aircraft!

As a side note, I read that in early war Luftwaffe aircraft, RLM 02 Grau was to be painted in 'all areas visible to the pilot or ground crew'. The rlm 02 was later changed to RLM 66 Schwarzgrau for cockpit areas, other areas remaining 02. Interior of fueslages, wings, etc remained natural metal, although may have been primed with RLM 00 Wassershell, a clear lacquer to prevent corrosion.

Wurger · 03-04-2008, 05:09 PM

You are right A4K.RLM02 was the kind of an preservative for interior.But it was a bit later.The pre-war LF planes had their interiors in colours of materials that these were made of.The kind of Zinc Chromate paint ,which was rather a kind of chemical preservation then the paint, had been used for all aluminium sheets before RLM02 become the interior paint.It is my opinion.
You have mentioned about the US WW2 figter.I think that this situation occured because it is a feature of the kind paints.One coat - yellow metalic tonality, two layers - yellow-greenish tonalit etc....The best example is to mix some yellow Humbrol paint H154 with one drop of H11 and then add one drop more end more.Try this and notice the mixture tonality.It will be from yellow to dark green with metalic tonality.

A4K · 03-05-2008, 06:34 AM

That's a great tip mate, thanks!
For US aircraft I usually use a Humbrol 80 or similar, and mix in either 74 or 81 till I get the effect I want, greener in cockpit areas, yellower in engine bays and undercarriage wells.

Recently I used straight 81 for the engine bay of an F6F hellcat, and washed a dark grey pastel/ watercolour mix over it to darken it, especially toward the rear of the cowling. It's not a bad effect.
(I still brush paint BTW, I hope to get an airbrush this year though, -after 6 years here, it looks like I'll be sticking round for a while!)

I'll have to give your method a go to see if it's better!

Wurger · 03-05-2008, 07:09 AM

Your method is also good.But as memory serves the US interior paint looked a bit different form the English and German ones.Besides if the preservative is not achieved by a chemical way its tonality depends on what a kind of a material it was painted and how many cotes there were applied.Of course a primer colour should be taken into consideration.

A4K · 03-05-2008, 08:27 AM

For early RAF aircraft (including Spitfires Mk.I-V), I prefer Humbrol 31 (enamel) for the cockpit and internal fueslage, while I prefer a mix closer to 80 for later versions. This decision was made judging by photos and available info.

For Luftwaffe aircraft, I loved the Aeromaster paints, which they stopped producing a few years back. Shame, their RLM 02 was the closest match to the original (going by original colour photos and chips). Revells 45 is too strong in hue I think, better if lightened a little with a light grey

(This is all in my opinion, of course)

01-23-2008, 06:11 PM	#18
Wurger Siggy Master Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 13,967	U are welcome. If you need somethig more feel free to ask. __________________

01-23-2008, 07:23 PM	#19
Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Jersey, United States Posts: 10,228	Don't know why the link doesn't work. This one was interesting. Luftwaffe Camouflage __________________ "If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it's English, thank a soldier!" http://www.njcacoa.org/

01-24-2008, 12:18 AM	#20
wilbur1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Escondido,Ca Posts: 2,206	Do you ever wonder if it actually worked? and i mean all the time, sometimes i can easily see but what about now? wait im sorry i just realised what i wrote...sorry guys i've been drinkin since 1600 sorry didnt mean to intrudde buuurrrpppp __________________ Dont shoot him...... It will just make him angry.

01-25-2008, 04:47 PM	#21
Wurger Siggy Master Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 13,967	So dear Wilbur1 don't drink so much, because you could sign something what could be used against you. Njaco it is a nice link to a nice site. THX __________________

02-28-2008, 11:08 PM	#24
Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Jersey, United States Posts: 10,228	I thought Charles might have meant emblems. Too many to post but these links show a few. Unsure if most are correct. Luftwaffe Emblems LW - Geschwader Luftwaffe Emblems Part 1: Fighters __________________ "If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it's English, thank a soldier!" http://www.njcacoa.org/

01-23-2008, 06:05 PM	#17
DBII Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,429	Thanks, I understand now DBII

02-26-2008, 06:01 PM	#23
utbresearch Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8	Hi everyone, Great thread. I'm wondering about Luftwaffe camouflage and markings during the Siege of Malta, specifically the JU-88s and BF Me-109s. As they were re-assigned from the eastern front to Malta, would they have been repainted the tropical camouflage of their North African counterparts? Would that have happened immediately at the beginning of that campaign or gradually throughout? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

03-02-2008, 12:53 PM	#25
Wurger Siggy Master Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 13,967	Possible you are right.Nice sites that can come in handy. __________________

03-04-2008, 11:07 AM	#26
A4K Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,224	Some great info guys! I agree with Wojtec regarding the use of available colours, but I think natural fading of paints and repair touch-ups would also account for shade variations seen in many photos. I once read an account of a US WW2 fighter being restored in the states (can't remember what it was), and apparently 8 different shades of Zinc Chromate were found throughout the aircraft! As a side note, I read that in early war Luftwaffe aircraft, RLM 02 Grau was to be painted in 'all areas visible to the pilot or ground crew'. The rlm 02 was later changed to RLM 66 Schwarzgrau for cockpit areas, other areas remaining 02. Interior of fueslages, wings, etc remained natural metal, although may have been primed with RLM 00 Wassershell, a clear lacquer to prevent corrosion.

03-04-2008, 05:09 PM	#27
Wurger Siggy Master Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 13,967	You are right A4K.RLM02 was the kind of an preservative for interior.But it was a bit later.The pre-war LF planes had their interiors in colours of materials that these were made of.The kind of Zinc Chromate paint ,which was rather a kind of chemical preservation then the paint, had been used for all aluminium sheets before RLM02 become the interior paint.It is my opinion. You have mentioned about the US WW2 figter.I think that this situation occured because it is a feature of the kind paints.One coat - yellow metalic tonality, two layers - yellow-greenish tonalit etc....The best example is to mix some yellow Humbrol paint H154 with one drop of H11 and then add one drop more end more.Try this and notice the mixture tonality.It will be from yellow to dark green with metalic tonality. __________________ Last edited by Wurger; 03-05-2008 at 06:58 AM.

03-05-2008, 06:34 AM	#28
A4K Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,224	That's a great tip mate, thanks! For US aircraft I usually use a Humbrol 80 or similar, and mix in either 74 or 81 till I get the effect I want, greener in cockpit areas, yellower in engine bays and undercarriage wells. Recently I used straight 81 for the engine bay of an F6F hellcat, and washed a dark grey pastel/ watercolour mix over it to darken it, especially toward the rear of the cowling. It's not a bad effect. (I still brush paint BTW, I hope to get an airbrush this year though, -after 6 years here, it looks like I'll be sticking round for a while!) I'll have to give your method a go to see if it's better!

03-05-2008, 07:09 AM	#29
Wurger Siggy Master Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 13,967	Your method is also good.But as memory serves the US interior paint looked a bit different form the English and German ones.Besides if the preservative is not achieved by a chemical way its tonality depends on what a kind of a material it was painted and how many cotes there were applied.Of course a primer colour should be taken into consideration. __________________

03-05-2008, 08:27 AM	#30
A4K Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,224	For early RAF aircraft (including Spitfires Mk.I-V), I prefer Humbrol 31 (enamel) for the cockpit and internal fueslage, while I prefer a mix closer to 80 for later versions. This decision was made judging by photos and available info. For Luftwaffe aircraft, I loved the Aeromaster paints, which they stopped producing a few years back. Shame, their RLM 02 was the closest match to the original (going by original colour photos and chips). Revells 45 is too strong in hue I think, better if lightened a little with a light grey (This is all in my opinion, of course)

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