Luftwaffe Aircraft Camouflage and Markings

[stona]

Originally Posted by alkimista

hey guys!!this is my first post here and i would like to know if someone can help me with some doubts i have.
i'm still very confused about early war luftwaffe cockpit colors.i have some bf 109 Es that i want to build,from E1 to E7.what should be the most correct color for the Emil's?did they all were in rlm 02 or could they be also in rlm66 at that time?or even both colors in the cockpit?can i trust in the colors of museum aircraft?
during some research i have found an E-1 and E-4 with what it looks rlm66 and an E-3 with rlm02.
sorry about this "confusion"but i'm really confused about this subject.
i hope someone can clear my mind about this.
thanks in advance.

Beware the early/late split for 02/66. As part of a discussion elsewhere about early,BOB, Ju88 interiors which were certainly RLM66 this contribution was made by Dave Waldman (Tango98 from Canada) regarding Bf 109 s of the same period. I take no credit for this, it is his and his colleagues research. I quote him here

"Not certain which Luftwaffe types you are considering but the following may be of interest to you if modelling Bf 109s or 190s.

In brief, research to date by my colleagues and I along with photographs and the information contained within copies of the relevant RLM & Messerschmitt documentation in our files identifies the basic cockpit colour for the entire 109E, F-0 and the earliest F-1 series as 02 with the instrument panel in 66 although grey 41 is also mentioned in one reference to instrument panels fitted to early E-1s.

However, while it is true that some E models did feature cockpits finished entirely in 66, this was due to which particular sub-contractor (e.g. Arado, Fieseler etc) built the airframe (regardless of sub-type) and not because of any directive, theatre of operation etc.

Photographic evidence of 109s brought down over the UK during the B of B where the interior of the cockpit is clearly visible, clearly show that, while the sidewalls, seat etc are finished in 02, the cockpit sills and sloping area immediately behind the pilot’s shoulders was finished in a much darker colour, which was, in all probability, black-grey 66. Logic dictating that it was likely carried out for two simple reasons - to eliminate glare and to avoid compromising the dark(er) upper fuselage camouflage of the aircraft when viewed from above. Additionally and just to confuse matters further, several E variants brought down over the UK which bore 02 finished cockpits had very dark coloured floor panels suggesting the use of perhaps 66 or even black for these areas.

Interestingly, every enemy aircraft that was brought down over the UK was extensively photographed in situ, the first being four basic views of the front, rear and port and starboard sides followed by areas of interest such as crew/cockpit areas etc. In such photos of 109s where the light grey (02) interior of the cockpit is clearly visible, several have the upper areas finished in a darker colour as mentioned above with a few, as also outlined above, having dark painted (i.e. 66) cockpits. This same is true in extant photos of many of the 109Es brought down, captured etc in the Mediterranean theatre, which, while retaining a basic 02 cockpit, have all areas above the pilot’s, shoulders painted in 66 or similar dark colour.

As far as canopy framing goes, that for the early rounded style was generally finished in 02 but according to recent documentary evidence discovered by German and Dutch researchers, the heavier framed canopies were painted inside and out in 66 at the source of manufacture. The exterior framework often being left in this colour rather than being repainted to match the surrounding camouflage finish; this would then be the most likely explanation why many 109s with the heavier framed canopies are often seen with the exterior canopy framework much darker than the adjacent camouflage colour(s).

For all subsequent Bf 109F, G & K variants with the exception of a few of the very earliest Bf 109F-1s, the entire cockpit, including seat was finished in 66, the same being generally true for all variants of the Fw 190 excluding the very early V (prototype) airframes.

As a broad rule of thumb, 02 as a cockpit finish was ordered replaced by 66 in November 1941. However, if your chosen subject is to have an 02 cockpit, don't worry too much about the variety of shades of this colour available in model paints as the same inconsistencies occurred even with the real colour which led to the RLM sending out advisory notices on several occasions between mid-1941 and early 1944 quoting that no concern should be raised about the colour differences between batches of 02 citing such things as quality control etc, etc.


HTH

Dave"

Cheers
Steve

[Wurger]

...

[DFM+BB]

Hi everybody!

I want to learn more about the "serpentine" or "spaghetti" camouflage (sorry don't know the exact word...even in French...!)
You probably know thoses german camouflages on night figthers (like the Me109 G-6 of JG300 "yellow 1") but I want to know if there are any picture of the feiesler Fi156 with this type of decoration, and how was it painted ?
I'm Also interested in other aircraft with this paint scheme.

Sorry for asking such basic questions...

[stona]

The USAF museum has a "Storch" purporting to be painted as the one used by Rommel in North Africa. This is done in a sort of serpentine scheme. I imagine the museum would have researched the scheme and have references for it. I'm no expert on the type but that one is the only one I've seen in such a scheme. With the Luftwaffe anything is possible!
Steve

[Wurger]

Here you are .Source a book about Fi 156.

Believing the pic caption this is a Storch C-3/Trop coded DM+BY. Its "wavy" camo was made by adding these "serpentins" of RLM79 on the standard ETO camo schems RLM70/71. The band on the rear part of the fuselage was white.

[stona]

That is a lovely image Wurger. I don't have any "Storch" specific references, though they turn up in more general material, so it is nice to see. Anyone attempting to represent that scheme is going to need some serious airbrush practice (or figure out a nifty bit of masking)!!!
I'm almost tempted!
Do you know who the officer sat in the rear is? The soldier in the background is saluting him.
Steve

[Wurger]

To be honest I'm not sure. There is a couple of pics of gen.Rommel sitting on the similar painted Storch C-3/Trop in North Africa in 1941.So it could be his arrival to one of the AK airfield..but it is very likely the officer is Albert Kesselring.

[stona]

As soon as I read your post I thought "that does look like Kesselring". I've checked my dodgy memory against a couple of photos of "uncle Albert" and I think you are correct. I'd put money on that being Kesselring in the back, no wonder the soldier is saluting!

[Wurger]

Yep....I think it is very possible.However there is another couple of shots with Albert Kesselring getting on Fi 156 C5/Trop ( believing the pic caption) painted in the wavy camo pattern in the North Africa in 1942,He is wearing the same kind of the uniform like the saluting officer.So all the matter is very interesting.

[DFM+BB]

Thanks for the pic Wurger ! it is exactly what I was talking about !

[Wurger]

You'r welcome.

[imalko]

It's well known that some German fighter units (JG 51 and JG 54) operating Fw 190 on Eastern front often repainted their aircraft in some variation of camouflage scheme seen usually on bombers using dark green colors. I found number of color profiles of early Fw 190s (up to A-6 variant I believe) painted this way, but having trouble finding A-8s with this scheme. Were any Fw 190A-8s in later stages of war actually painted this way or not. If yes a color profile or photo would be highly appreciated.

[beaupower32]

Removed for now

[vikingBerserker]

Nice!

[Crimea_River]

I see 5 images then the rest are blank.