RGB for Spitfire Ia

[zetland76]

Hi,
Done a search for this on the site but it eludes me.
Could someone please let me know the RGB codes for a Spitfire during the period of the Battle of Britain. I believe the colour scheme was Dark Green and Earth Brown camouflage and Duck Egg Green underneath.
Thanks

Mike

 

[Wurger]

Here you are....

 

[zetland76]

Thanks Wurger. I was anticipating the normal quick and accurate response from yourself. Thanks again.

 

[Wurger]

You'r welcome.

 

[stona]

But the underside was not Sky Blue. As of 7th June 1940 the underside colour was to be Sky. This is a colour identical to the earlier Camotint. There was a lot of confusion at the time and some aircraft undoubtedly got painted in the wrong colours but the intention was for them to be finished in the new colour Sky (Type S).
Cheers
Steve

 

[Wurger]

No problem. I have added the Sky S-type to that diagram.

 

[Wurger]

Also, for everyone who has a problem with Sky/Sky Blue colours I would suggest following the link below to a site with an interesting opinion and references.

Antrvm Ratvs - RAF Skies

 

[stona]

I find that link a little mis-leading. The colour specified for under surfaces in the Air Ministry Signal (X.915) of 7 June 1940 was Sky Type S dope. Not Sky Blue,Sky Grey or any other colour. This was a new colour and this may have led to some units becoming confused. The lack of this new colour caused the Air Ministry to issue another signal a mere three days later allowing front line aircraft to operate in the previous scheme until supplies became available. Here is that signal courtesy of Edgar Brooks.

The new colour Sky had its origins in the previously experimental Camotint being used as camouflage at higher levels. Another document (same source) demonstrating that link.

Camotint and Sky are clearly the same colour. Did Sky Blue get applied to some aircraft in error? I think that it is virtually certain but this was a mistake. The intention was for them to be painted Sky.
The new colour was also described as all sorts of duck egg colours. A further signal was sent "clarifying" its description.

Hope this helps. We may not know for sure what colour a particular aircraft wore at this time but we do know what colour it SHOULD have worn. That colour was indisputably Sky.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Wurger]

Undoubtedly Sky S-type and the Sky Blue were different colurs. However both of them were used for some reason. It might have been the shortage of proper paints etc.... But we can agree that without a good image of a particular plane we aren't able to say for sure which one was applied. Also I agree with you ,Steve, the Sky was the basic one that should have been used for painting of undersides. But at early period of the battle all seemed to be possible.And maintaining crews could have omitted following orders of the Air Ministry

 

[TimEwers]

SO if I put together a BOB Spit or Hurri I could paint the underside either sky blue or sky.

But how long did the half black half sky blue on these planes last?.

 

[stona]

There was no Blue/Black underside.
The decision to go for a half black,half white underside was taken on 17 Jan 1939 although Supermarine weren't told until 27 jan 1939.
Aircraft in service were painted in a variety of interpretations of the instruction. Some were divided down the central line of the fuselage,some retained an aluminium (dope) fuselage and got black/white wings and some had their ailerons painted in contrasting colour.
On 4 June 1940 an order for a yellow surround to be painted around the roundel on the lower port (black) wing was given but,three days later,the instruction to change to Sky undersides was issued (on 7 June 1940).
On 28 November 1940 an instruction for the port wing only to revert to black was given though implementation was delayed until 12 December 1940. Underside roundels also reappeared at this time,the port one on the black wing having a yellow surround.
On 8 April 1941 the undersides reverted to Sky,implementation delayed,again,until the 22nd of that month.
Finally on 12 August 1941 the Day Fighter Scheme was introduced. Undersides became Medium Sea Grey and the Dark Earth on the upper surfaces was replaced with a 7:1 mix of Medium Sea Grey and Black. This mixed grey was later standardised with the name Ocean Grey.
That's a basic outline of the progression of fighter camouflage.
There were plenty of anomalies,probably for the reasons indicated by "Wurger" above. I think the order to allow aircraft to operate in the earlier scheme whilst sufficient stocks of Sky were obtained may well have been an attempt to prevent individual units free lancing and coming up with there own versions. There is good circumstantial evidence that some units did indeed brew their own mixtures. I think this was more an attempt to comply with the Air Ministry directive rather than to disobey or ignore the order. Mistakes were made but wilful non compliance would be very unlikely IMHO.
Without good evidence,or a good reference,I'd stick to the official schemes. As a wise man once said "Don't go looking for a Zebra when there's a donkey in the field."
Cheers
Steve

 

[Edgar Brooks]

That "Sky Blue" signal is a classic example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing, since it was followed by a corrective signal, in which "sky blue" was replaced by Sky Type "S." Sky blue was the designated underside colour for what we now call "drone" aircraft, like the Queen Bee. Code letters, for fighters, were never sky blue; they started as sea grey medium, then sky, that's all.
That link has several errors; B.S.381C never existed prior to WWII, it was B.S.381; this might seem a minor point, but 1 Sky Blue became 101 Sky Blue post-war, when all numbers were updated. 210 Sky never had a pre-war equivalent, and Eau-de-Nil is a red herring (if you'll excuse the mixed metaphor.) Sky Blue, also, was never known, officially, as duck egg blue, that was reserved for Sky, which, likewise, was never known, officially, as duck egg green. Sky Grey was not used on RAF fighters, either.
Fighter Command, most certainly, did not ignore Air Ministry orders, neither did the factories, and it's mischievous to suggest it.
The Air Ministry never used British Standards during the war; when B.S. offered their services, they were politely told, "Thanks, but no thanks," since the A.M. wanted to be able to amend colours at possibly a moment's notice.
Judging by the author's name, I'd venture to suggest that he does not have access to the many hundreds of files in our National Archives, which explains (but only partially excuses) the errors.
Edgar

 

[Grumpypa]

Hi,
just to way in,... i found a PDF document that was used as a basis of a report that help formulate recommendations to the Air Ministry.
It specifically mentions changing the colour of the Hurricane underside from Black and White to "Duck Egg Blue

When I figure how to get the PDF i downloaded uploaded to this thread I will....

regards
John