A little help with some photos? - Aircraft of World War II

orion549 · 11-17-2008, 12:34 AM

Hi there, I was wondering if anyone knows where to find some pics of a B17 from the 487th bomb group named "My Best Bette" piloted by Lt. William Budd Wentz.

I'm looking to model the collision of this plane with an ME-109 on April 7, 1945. If anyone knows where there's pics pre- or post-collision, it would help a lot. Right now I've only got some screen captures from the Dogfights episode that featured this plane, but I don't trust the scheme and damage %100 so I'd like some pics if possible. If not, then I'll just re-construct the scene from the show.

Thanks a lot!
Orion549

Airframes · 11-17-2008, 01:59 AM

Hi Orion. wait out on this one, I'll check my files and books, I might have something, but can't promise. Yet!
Terry.

Airframes · 11-17-2008, 04:49 AM

Hi Orion. Well, I've checked all my sources, and can only come up with the following.
There was a William B. Wentz, pilot of B17G 43-39126, of the 838th Sqn. No other info is listed for this aircraft, and no mention of any name or nose art. This info is from the 487th Association, the following is from my own references.
The 338th's code letters were 2C, in black letters on the rear fuselage, and the group carried the 'P in a square' ID letter on the fins of the B17's, a white 'P' in a black square.
There is a colour profile of a B17 from the 836th sqn., coded 2G, in Roger Freeman's 'The Mighty Eighth', and a similar profile on the 487th Association web-site, which give a general idea of the overall colour scheme for the period, when all of the Group's B17's were in 'natural metal' finish, with yellow fins/rudder and fin spine. The Group's aircraft also wore a yellow and red diagonal stripe (in an inverted 'V' shape) on the outer starboard wing, the yellow stripe inboard, and had the outer wing tips in yellow. I believe the tailplanes were also yellow, and some aircraft also had red forward engine cowlings.
I haven't been able to find any pictures of this particular aircraft, but if I do, I'll let you know.
Sorry the info is a bit 'thin', but I hope it helps a little.
Cheers,
Terry.

orion549 · 11-17-2008, 08:33 PM

Thank you very much Airframes! You've verified the color scheme that Dogfights basically had, so I know I can go on that no problem then. Please let me know if you can find any pics of the plane post-impact if you can, the damage is really the only thing you haven't verified for me.

Here's the screen capture I'm working from, you can't see it in this shot, but based on the program, this B17 did have the red cowlings on it.

Although the one thing I did notice is the code letters on this one is 2G, which from what you've found it should be 2C. So there's one thing to change.

Airframes · 11-18-2008, 07:17 PM

Hi mate!
Now that i've seen your screen shot, I THINK I might have a pic somewhere of an unidentified B17G with similar damage, that just MIGHT be the one. It'll take some time to find though, so I hope you don't mind waiting a bit.
As for the code letters, 2G was used by one of the other Squadrons, but your bird's letters would have definitely been 2C - (?).
If the colour profile from Mighty Eighth is unavailable, let me know, and I'll send you a scan, plus what I have in colour pics of actual aircraft from the group.
Terry.

orion549 · 11-18-2008, 11:55 PM

Thanks again! I've got plenty of time to wait, take your time. I'm not planning on actually getting into the building until after Christmas, I still need to get the 109 model before I start doing anything, and I don't think I'll have that until then. It'd be great to see the photo, even if it doesn't end up being the right plane, just to get an idea of the damage done. Thanks for the help! This is great.

CliffyB · 11-19-2008, 01:43 AM

Don't trust the models on Dogfights or Battle 360 100%! I know at least on Battle 360 the models are not 100% accurate; in a few cases FAR from it. (One example: They showed the USS North Carolina in 1942 fit and made it look more like an Iowa-Class BB from the 1990's complete with a giant 55 on the bow

) Bit of a let down considering the amount of research that was put into those shows. Anyway, I'd definitely check your sources before using anything from those shows. Just a friendly word of advice. Good luck with the model man.

orion549 · 11-20-2008, 11:05 AM

Yeah, I know they're not 100% accurate, that's why I want the photographic proof. If Airframes can't find the pic that matches, I'm just gonna model the scene from Dogfights and not claim any historical accuracy.

Micdrow · 11-20-2008, 06:50 PM

Maybe this will help you out. From the book Battle colors by Robert A Walkins

109ROAMING · 11-20-2008, 09:36 PM

Looks like lotta good info in that Paul!

thanks for posting it

Micdrow · 11-21-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 109ROAMING

Looks like lotta good info in that Paul!

thanks for posting it

Your welcome!!!!

Airframes · 12-18-2008, 01:56 PM

Hi Orion. Just letting you know I haven't forgotten about the pics of the damage. I've found a couple of B&W shots of different aircraft in OD finish with similar damage, and I'm still trawling through the rest of my references, with a lot to go! Sure I'll find something in the end!
Terry.

11-17-2008, 12:34 AM	#1
orion549 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	A little help with some photos? Hi there, I was wondering if anyone knows where to find some pics of a B17 from the 487th bomb group named "My Best Bette" piloted by Lt. William Budd Wentz. I'm looking to model the collision of this plane with an ME-109 on April 7, 1945. If anyone knows where there's pics pre- or post-collision, it would help a lot. Right now I've only got some screen captures from the Dogfights episode that featured this plane, but I don't trust the scheme and damage %100 so I'd like some pics if possible. If not, then I'll just re-construct the scene from the show. Thanks a lot! Orion549

11-17-2008, 08:33 PM	#4
orion549 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	Thank you very much Airframes! You've verified the color scheme that Dogfights basically had, so I know I can go on that no problem then. Please let me know if you can find any pics of the plane post-impact if you can, the damage is really the only thing you haven't verified for me. Here's the screen capture I'm working from, you can't see it in this shot, but based on the program, this B17 did have the red cowlings on it. Although the one thing I did notice is the code letters on this one is 2G, which from what you've found it should be 2C. So there's one thing to change. Last edited by orion549; 11-17-2008 at 08:37 PM.

11-20-2008, 09:36 PM	#10
109ROAMING Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 4,994	Looks like lotta good info in that Paul! thanks for posting it __________________ "When all else fails read the manual"

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11-17-2008, 01:59 AM	#2
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,062	Hi Orion. wait out on this one, I'll check my files and books, I might have something, but can't promise. Yet! Terry.

11-17-2008, 04:49 AM	#3
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,062	Hi Orion. Well, I've checked all my sources, and can only come up with the following. There was a William B. Wentz, pilot of B17G 43-39126, of the 838th Sqn. No other info is listed for this aircraft, and no mention of any name or nose art. This info is from the 487th Association, the following is from my own references. The 338th's code letters were 2C, in black letters on the rear fuselage, and the group carried the 'P in a square' ID letter on the fins of the B17's, a white 'P' in a black square. There is a colour profile of a B17 from the 836th sqn., coded 2G, in Roger Freeman's 'The Mighty Eighth', and a similar profile on the 487th Association web-site, which give a general idea of the overall colour scheme for the period, when all of the Group's B17's were in 'natural metal' finish, with yellow fins/rudder and fin spine. The Group's aircraft also wore a yellow and red diagonal stripe (in an inverted 'V' shape) on the outer starboard wing, the yellow stripe inboard, and had the outer wing tips in yellow. I believe the tailplanes were also yellow, and some aircraft also had red forward engine cowlings. I haven't been able to find any pictures of this particular aircraft, but if I do, I'll let you know. Sorry the info is a bit 'thin', but I hope it helps a little. Cheers, Terry.

11-18-2008, 07:17 PM	#5
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,062	Hi mate! Now that i've seen your screen shot, I THINK I might have a pic somewhere of an unidentified B17G with similar damage, that just MIGHT be the one. It'll take some time to find though, so I hope you don't mind waiting a bit. As for the code letters, 2G was used by one of the other Squadrons, but your bird's letters would have definitely been 2C - (?). If the colour profile from Mighty Eighth is unavailable, let me know, and I'll send you a scan, plus what I have in colour pics of actual aircraft from the group. Terry.

11-18-2008, 11:55 PM	#6
orion549 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	Thanks again! I've got plenty of time to wait, take your time. I'm not planning on actually getting into the building until after Christmas, I still need to get the 109 model before I start doing anything, and I don't think I'll have that until then. It'd be great to see the photo, even if it doesn't end up being the right plane, just to get an idea of the damage done. Thanks for the help! This is great.

11-19-2008, 01:43 AM	#7
CliffyB Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 19	Don't trust the models on Dogfights or Battle 360 100%! I know at least on Battle 360 the models are not 100% accurate; in a few cases FAR from it. (One example: They showed the USS North Carolina in 1942 fit and made it look more like an Iowa-Class BB from the 1990's complete with a giant 55 on the bow ) Bit of a let down considering the amount of research that was put into those shows. Anyway, I'd definitely check your sources before using anything from those shows. Just a friendly word of advice. Good luck with the model man.

11-20-2008, 11:05 AM	#8
orion549 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	Yeah, I know they're not 100% accurate, that's why I want the photographic proof. If Airframes can't find the pic that matches, I'm just gonna model the scene from Dogfights and not claim any historical accuracy.

12-18-2008, 01:56 PM	#12
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,062	Hi Orion. Just letting you know I haven't forgotten about the pics of the damage. I've found a couple of B&W shots of different aircraft in OD finish with similar damage, and I'm still trawling through the rest of my references, with a lot to go! Sure I'll find something in the end! Terry.