RAF Airspeed Oxfords 1945

[Barf]

I am looking for any pictures of late war (1945) Airspeed Oxfords wearing camouflage. Help?

[Tinplate58]

Barf afraid our scanner is temporarily kaput so I can't post a photo (will do so ASAP) but these are the specified colours from 1943 to end of war.
Uppers, Temporate Land Scheme ,Dark Green-Dark Earth down to the fuselage bottom, yellow undersides.
Serials Night (black) but often white for visibility. Black serials below wings for identification.
From 1943 ,Blind Approach Training Flights (BAT) ie. training pilots in blind flying and landing, had yellow triangles on the fuselage (either on side of nose or mid-fuselage in front of roundel) and sometimes repeated above the fuselage behind the cockpit ( to warn nearby aircraft to keep clear).
From mid-1944 BAT flights could have black triangles below wings outboard of the roundels , points forward. Also they were authorised to have yellow wing tips ( above the wings) and a yellow fuselage band backing the roundels
Aircraft ID by letter, letters or letter-number, in sky ,white or yellow ( Fleet Air Arm trainers used yellow ).
White seems most common. By the end of the war there were various combinations of these markings but the camo. remained. Oxford trainers overseas ( Canada, S. Africa, Rhodesia, NZ or Australia ) usually yellow overall but some bare metal.
Examples...............
AP497 "WP" (white serials and letters) from No. 14 Pilot Advanced Training Unit
DF509 "LL" ditto from No. 2 Air Gunnery School
HN767 "U1K" (yellow) from No. 758 Sqn. NAS, Fleet Air Arm. ( in RAF colours ).

Regards Nick

[Barf]

Thanks Tinplate, am looking forward to the pic's. We have Oxford PK286 here at the RNZAF Museum undergoing full restoration. As it was built in 1945 we want to restore it with the correct scheme for that era. It only spent a year with the RAF before being sold back to Airspeed for conversion to a Consul. Oxfords in New Zealand wore all manner of schemes from silver to yellow all over and at least 4 variations on the camouflage schemes both with and without yellow lower surfaces.
Cheers
Barf

[Tinplate58]

Hi Barf..........in June 1993 "Scale Aircraft Modelling" magazine did a feature on Oxfords , there are 4 drawings of RNZAF Oxfords ....all 4 in different schemes!!
1. Overall bare metal
2. Overall yellow, red rudder and cowlings
3. Yellow with red bands on wings-fuselage ( BAT unit)
4. Green-brown, light blue undersides.
All have NZ serials and are marks I and II.
Presumably by the war's end they would have had post-1942 Type C and C1 roundels.
Been checking PK286 on the net, there's quite a lot.

Nick

[Barf]

Going by our info, pics etc there are at least 20 different permutations of schemes for RNZAF Oxfords. Yet we still cant seem to nail down the late RAF scheme. We know that PK286 had yellow under the wings, we found it when stripping the paint ( 9 layers in total ) but it seems that the fuselage was stripped of paint when it was converted to a Consul thus there is no evidence of where the yellow was positioned as per the relevant RAF scheme for the time (1945)

[Wurger]

I found this on the site Temple Martin Album page 5

[Barf]

Thanks Wurger, a couple of photos there that I have not seen before. Not any help for the Oxford (its the RAF 1945 scheme that I need) but the pics of the Vildebeest could be of some use to us. We also have a Vildebeest project here that is a real challenge, there are no blueprints for the aircraft so a lot of our work is done from photographs. Thanks
Barf

[Tinplate58]

This is one of the photos I mentioned earlier, from MAP; the late war scheme ( aircraft is from the Fighter Command Instrument Training Squadron , hence the yellow BAT triangles ).
The external colour scheme was detailed in Air Publication 2656A Sect. 6 of Oct. 1944.....
Uppers Dark Green-Dark Earth down to the fuselage bottom ( Pattern 1 ), yellow undersides with Night serials,insignia Types I,II and III ( post-1942 style).
Serials should have been Night and codes Dull Red but there were local variations---white here for better visibility.
The outer 4' of the top wings were normally yellow but no doubt varied.
The scheme with yellow higher up the sides was revised (I think in late 1940) and top colours brought down lower.
Please note the triangles were only for blind flying purposes.

Nick

[Airframes]

If the colour scheme Nick posted is of any interst to you Barf, I've just found an article from Fly Past magazine, August 1991, with colour pics of the restored Oxford from a BAT Flight for the RAF Museum, just after the work was completed at Newark. The pics are external and internal shots, in good quality colour, showing the Dark Green/Dark Earth uppers, with Black undersides, and the yellow 'trainer' bands and yellow BATF triangles. Let me know if you'd like me to scan and post them.
I've done a bit of digging and, as you've already discovered, there were a variety of colour schemes for the Oxford by 1945, although the predominant scheme still appeared to be Dark Green/Dark Earth/Yellow, with some training units changing to overall 'aluminium' dope, with yellow 'trainer' bands where applicable.

[Tinplate58]

I've seen the Hendon Oxford, it was in the Bomber Command Hall then; presumably that's why it has black undersides but that was the scheme for training aircraft in OTUs which could be called on for an operational role when required ( ie. bombers, fighters and Coastal Command).
Yellow was authorised for undersides except as follows ( AMO.A.926 12.12.40)....
...."non-operational aircraft" ( except for AAC, target-towers, ambulance and target aircraft) .."are to be coloured yellow. Service types of aircraft in operational training units, air fighting development units, the Fighter Interception Unit and no.2 School of Army Co-operation are to conform to the normal colour scheme for the aircraft's role." This would be "Matt Black" or "Duck Egg Blue" as defined.
Prototypes and experimental aircraft were also to have yellow below.

Oxfords would be unlikely candidates for operations but the Museum must have done their research; their Oxford seems to have a full range of markings. They mostly flew (as far as I can see) with Advanced Flying Units, Air Gunnery Schools, Flying Instructor Schools and BAT Flights.That's apart from the many on communications or "hacks".

Nick

[Airframes]

You're quite right Nick. This particular Oxford, MP425, is restored and painted as it would have been at its first service unit, 1536 BATF, at Spitalgate, Lincolnshire. As it was used for Beam Approach training for Bomber Command crews, it wore (wears) the BC colour scheme, with black undersides, but with the distinctive warning and recognition yellow 'trainer' bands and the BAT yellow triangles. This aircraft subsequently went to 18 AFU at Church Lawton and then Snitterfield in February 1945, until the Unit disbanded in May 1945, when it transferred to 7 SFTS at Westwood (Peterborough), before retirement to 12 MU, Kirkbride in June 1946, when it was put up for disposal.
MP425 was then sold to Air Service Training at Hamble, when it was allocated the civilian registration G-AITB, and was transferred to Airwork at Perth, Scotland, in September 1960, being relegated to a ground instructional airframe in May 1961.
The RAF Museum acquired the aircraft in 1972, when it was stored at Shawbury, before moving to Cardington for restoration. When this was completed, the aircraft was put on public display at Newark Air Museum in May 1991.

[Barf]

Would love to see the pics, anything helps, as they say

Cheers
Barf

If the colour scheme Nick posted is of any interst to you Barf, I've just found an article from Fly Past magazine, August 1991, with colour pics of the restored Oxford from a BAT Flight for the RAF Museum, just after the work was completed at Newark. The pics are external and internal shots, in good quality colour, showing the Dark Green/Dark Earth uppers, with Black undersides, and the yellow 'trainer' bands and yellow BATF triangles. Let me know if you'd like me to scan and post them.
I've done a bit of digging and, as you've already discovered, there were a variety of colour schemes for the Oxford by 1945, although the predominant scheme still appeared to be Dark Green/Dark Earth/Yellow, with some training units changing to overall 'aluminium' dope, with yellow 'trainer' bands where applicable.

[Airframes]

Here you go. All images; D. Cubitt, 'Fly Past' magazine, August 1991.
Apparently this restoration is as accurate as possible, from the colour scheme to the interior fit for a BATF aircraft. Hope they are of use.
Cheers,
Terry.

[vikingBerserker]

Great pics Terry, esp the interior.

[A4K]

With VB..great info and pics guys!