B24 or B29 Jungle Crash Pics - Aircraft of World War II

aomiles · 05-11-2009, 01:50 AM

Hello. I'm currently living on Saipan in the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas. I went for a hike the other day in the jungle behind my house and came across this wreck. Some locals told me that the entire plane used to be there, but everything has been scavenged now except the engines and the landing gear. I'm trying to figure out what kind of plane this was. Everyone here says its a B-29, but it looked kind of small for that to my untrained eye. I was thinking it was more likely a b-24. There was a number legible in a few places that said "205097". Is there a place I could look that up?

Catch22 · 05-11-2009, 02:00 AM

Welcome to the forum!

Were you able to tell how many blades there were on the propellers? From the pictures I can't tell. If there were 3, it was definitely a B-24, as all B-29s had 4 blades. If it had 4, it was probably a B-29. I'm not sure if later versions of the Liberator had 4 blades or not, but I don't think so.

GrauGeist · 05-11-2009, 02:04 AM

Welcome to the forum, aomiles!

I see the person's legs in the one photo, near the engine, and using that to judge the size of the engine, I'd say it wasn't large enough to be a Wright R-3350-57. Plus there were 4 huge props on a B-29's engine.

It looks to be a Pratt & Whitney R-1830 instead, which had 3 props on each engine. I also notice that those props are in remarkable condition, which is telling me that they weren't under power when the aircraft went into the jungle.

As for the number 205097, I'm not having any luck with that, perhaps one of the other guys might be able to scare up some info on that.

* Wait! I'm wrong...I just looked closer at the images, and there are 4 props...just by looking at thier position on the hub confirms that.

I didn't see the first engine pic, it was slow to load. The photo offers a much better perspective about thier size, so those must be Wright R-3350 engines *

syscom3 · 05-11-2009, 02:43 AM

Contact Sally Ann at her website.

http://b-29.org/

She can get the pics put up and hopefully some of the more knowledgeable people there can identify it.

Airframes · 05-11-2009, 02:49 AM

I'd say B29. It cetainly looks like a four blade prop, and if the other image is of the landing gear, it appears to be a bogy type, twin wheeled.

aomiles · 05-11-2009, 03:28 AM

Sorry for the poor pics, but they are pulled from some video footage. Its really hard to get good pics when squeezed into the jungle.
I know its hard to tell, but there are 4 blades. The bottom two were smashed backwards from impact.

patriot66 · 05-11-2009, 07:30 AM

I would say it is definitely a B-29 from the photo of the main landing gear bogey. As far as I can remember it was the only bomber with twin bogeys (i.e 4 wheels) on each of the 2 main landing gear oleos. You can clearly see that there are 4 wheels on the photo. It would be interesting to know more of its story.

aomiles · 05-11-2009, 08:21 AM

I'm going to go back out there again this weekend. There was a info plate on the engine, but it was covered with mold. I'm going to take some cleaning stuff up and try to get it clean.
But if the number on the engines (205097) isn't the serial, what is it?

Capt. Vick · 05-12-2009, 02:07 PM

...as to an absolute identification from the admittedly slim photographic evidence currently posted. Initially I thought it might have been a three bladed prop because the angle between the two blades that are actually showing APPEARS greater then 90 degrees. That was until our man on the spot confirmed that it was a four blader. Also, and I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but the engine itself appears too small to have come from a B-29 (that engine was huge)...even with all the damage. And lastly, the "landing gear"...although I can't scale it correctly it appears to have four rims in a row. The superfort didn't have that, even though patriot66 says the main gear had 4 tires, in actuality it only had two per each main gear and two tires also for the nose gear. We need more information I think.

Matt308 · 05-12-2009, 02:40 PM

Looks like a B-29 to me. The main landing gear that you see in the pic is two LARGE wheel rims on each side of a two-wheel bogie. The tires are gone (probably due to the resultant fire). What is left are the inner and outter rims on each side of the main gear strut. Given the size, that smacks of B-29. There were some other US aircraft that had two wheel bogies, but these were used for flying boats and were typically installed only when they came ashore.

The engines do look small, but I'm thinking that is because the cylinder heads likely were scavenged, thus reducing the apparent diameter. Check out the second pic and you can see one blatently missing.

Matt308 · 05-12-2009, 03:06 PM

Here's a wreckage pic of the nose wheel bogie from a B-29 taken from B-29 Hunters of the JAAF/Takai & Sakaida. Without some scaling it is hard to tell the size of the bogie in the pic provided above. But roughly the nose wheel/tire assembly was about 3ft in diameter. The main gear tire/wheel assembly was roughly twice that (i.e., 6ft dia). Looking at the tire profile on the main gear, the wheel hubs would be about 4ft+ or so in diameter, I would guess.

Capt. Vick · 05-12-2009, 04:43 PM

Matt308 has convinced me. Great picture showing the tire burnt away from the rim(s). I guess I was thinking too much along the line of car tire rims, discounting that the size of the tire would necessarily dictate that there should be an outer AND inner rim! Another great education from a Forum member. Thanks. A B-29 it is!

comiso90 · 05-12-2009, 05:16 PM

Actually, I think this thread meant is to identify which forum members are gay or too old to care about women...

No one mentioned the girl with the blue Ambercrmbie shorts on... have any more photos of her?

me likey...

.

Matt308 · 05-12-2009, 05:19 PM

Probably his wife. But... and I do mean that in the best way... she caught my eye too.

Capt. Vick · 05-13-2009, 09:21 AM

Man I'm getting my eyes check...

05-11-2009, 01:50 AM	#1
aomiles Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3	B24 or B29 Jungle Crash Pics Hello. I'm currently living on Saipan in the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas. I went for a hike the other day in the jungle behind my house and came across this wreck. Some locals told me that the entire plane used to be there, but everything has been scavenged now except the engines and the landing gear. I'm trying to figure out what kind of plane this was. Everyone here says its a B-29, but it looked kind of small for that to my untrained eye. I was thinking it was more likely a b-24. There was a number legible in a few places that said "205097". Is there a place I could look that up?

05-11-2009, 02:00 AM	#2
Catch22 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,293	Welcome to the forum! Were you able to tell how many blades there were on the propellers? From the pictures I can't tell. If there were 3, it was definitely a B-24, as all B-29s had 4 blades. If it had 4, it was probably a B-29. I'm not sure if later versions of the Liberator had 4 blades or not, but I don't think so. __________________

05-11-2009, 02:04 AM	#3
GrauGeist Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Redding, California Posts: 3,349	Welcome to the forum, aomiles! I see the person's legs in the one photo, near the engine, and using that to judge the size of the engine, I'd say it wasn't large enough to be a Wright R-3350-57. Plus there were 4 huge props on a B-29's engine. It looks to be a Pratt & Whitney R-1830 instead, which had 3 props on each engine. I also notice that those props are in remarkable condition, which is telling me that they weren't under power when the aircraft went into the jungle. As for the number 205097, I'm not having any luck with that, perhaps one of the other guys might be able to scare up some info on that. * Wait! I'm wrong...I just looked closer at the images, and there are 4 props...just by looking at thier position on the hub confirms that. I didn't see the first engine pic, it was slow to load. The photo offers a much better perspective about thier size, so those must be Wright R-3350 engines * __________________ "Look back over the past, with its changing empires that rose and fell, and you can foresee the future." - Marcus Aurelius, Emperor of Rome > I Support Doug Gillis < Last edited by GrauGeist; 05-11-2009 at 02:32 AM.

05-11-2009, 02:43 AM	#4
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,283	Contact Sally Ann at her website. http://b-29.org/ She can get the pics put up and hopefully some of the more knowledgeable people there can identify it. __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

05-11-2009, 02:49 AM	#5
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,062	I'd say B29. It cetainly looks like a four blade prop, and if the other image is of the landing gear, it appears to be a bogy type, twin wheeled. __________________

05-11-2009, 03:28 AM	#6
aomiles Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3	Sorry for the poor pics, but they are pulled from some video footage. Its really hard to get good pics when squeezed into the jungle. I know its hard to tell, but there are 4 blades. The bottom two were smashed backwards from impact.

05-11-2009, 07:30 AM	#7
patriot66 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Mawdesley,Lancashire,U.K Posts: 4	B-29 Landing Gear Bogey I would say it is definitely a B-29 from the photo of the main landing gear bogey. As far as I can remember it was the only bomber with twin bogeys (i.e 4 wheels) on each of the 2 main landing gear oleos. You can clearly see that there are 4 wheels on the photo. It would be interesting to know more of its story.

05-11-2009, 08:21 AM	#8
aomiles Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3	I'm going to go back out there again this weekend. There was a info plate on the engine, but it was covered with mold. I'm going to take some cleaning stuff up and try to get it clean. But if the number on the engines (205097) isn't the serial, what is it?

05-12-2009, 02:07 PM	#9
Capt. Vick Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 159	I think the jury is still out... ...as to an absolute identification from the admittedly slim photographic evidence currently posted. Initially I thought it might have been a three bladed prop because the angle between the two blades that are actually showing APPEARS greater then 90 degrees. That was until our man on the spot confirmed that it was a four blader. Also, and I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but the engine itself appears too small to have come from a B-29 (that engine was huge)...even with all the damage. And lastly, the "landing gear"...although I can't scale it correctly it appears to have four rims in a row. The superfort didn't have that, even though patriot66 says the main gear had 4 tires, in actuality it only had two per each main gear and two tires also for the nose gear. We need more information I think.

05-12-2009, 02:40 PM	#10
Matt308 aka Dickcheese Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State Posts: 13,386	Looks like a B-29 to me. The main landing gear that you see in the pic is two LARGE wheel rims on each side of a two-wheel bogie. The tires are gone (probably due to the resultant fire). What is left are the inner and outter rims on each side of the main gear strut. Given the size, that smacks of B-29. There were some other US aircraft that had two wheel bogies, but these were used for flying boats and were typically installed only when they came ashore. The engines do look small, but I'm thinking that is because the cylinder heads likely were scavenged, thus reducing the apparent diameter. Check out the second pic and you can see one blatently missing. __________________ "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.] Marines don't have that problem." -- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts

05-12-2009, 04:43 PM	#12
Capt. Vick Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 159	Looks good to me! Matt308 has convinced me. Great picture showing the tire burnt away from the rim(s). I guess I was thinking too much along the line of car tire rims, discounting that the size of the tire would necessarily dictate that there should be an outer AND inner rim! Another great education from a Forum member. Thanks. A B-29 it is!

05-12-2009, 05:16 PM	#13
comiso90 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: FL Posts: 3,294	Actually, I think this thread meant is to identify which forum members are gay or too old to care about women... No one mentioned the girl with the blue Ambercrmbie shorts on... have any more photos of her? me likey... . __________________ http://www.BOOKSonWAR.com/ .

05-12-2009, 05:19 PM	#14
Matt308 aka Dickcheese Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State Posts: 13,386	Probably his wife. But... and I do mean that in the best way... she caught my eye too. __________________ "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.] Marines don't have that problem." -- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts

05-13-2009, 09:21 AM	#15
Capt. Vick Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 159	Wow, how did I miss that? Man I'm getting my eyes check...

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