Can you identify the B-25 in this picture, taken in the early 80's upstate NY?

[sully75]

Hi there,

I've been scanning family slides recently and found this one which is pretty interesting to me. I think it's a B-25 and pretty sure that the photograph is taken somewhere in upstate NY, possibly in the Catskills or on the way to Cooperstown. My family had a house in Hobart, NY and so we have a lot of photographs from that area. My father saw it and can't remember taking it. The car in the photo has NY licence plates.





Looks like this helicopter is on the same property but I'm not sure:


My guess this is an easy one for someone knowledgeable about this kind of stuff but it was interesting to see the picture. My guess is that most old warbirds like this are long since bought up and restored. Plane looks like it's in pretty good condition.

Thanks!
Paul

[herman1rg]

Are there any registration numbers visible on the original photo?

[Ivan1GFP]

That car looks like a 1969 Mercury Cougar. If you can read the plate, perhaps you can find the owner of the car and ask him / her?

- Ivan.

[antoni]

Try the Key Publications forum. A lot of the experts in wrecks and restorations hang out there.

Historic Aviation - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

[GrauGeist]

Perhaps try a search for "Cummins Engine Rebuilders" specific to that area...

[Wurger]

I think GG is right.....start with this.

[otftch]

Stars and bars with red outline and RAF fin flash ?
Ed

[evangilder]

Stars and bars with red outline and RAF fin flash ?
Ed

I was thinking the same thing. Make you wonder if it was assembled from parts of more than one airplane.

[sully75]

When I get more time I'll try to track down the Cummins sign. My father on second thought said it might be in Conneticut. Thanks for your thoughts, I thought this would be an easy one. I'd have to bet this airplane is long since restored, no?

[ToughOmbre]

When I get more time I'll try to track down the Cummins sign. My father on second thought said it might be in Conneticut. Thanks for your thoughts, I thought this would be an easy one. I'd have to bet this airplane is long since restored, no?

Hopefully it was restored, but it could still be sinking into the weeds, or worse.....scrapped.

Here's hoping that B-25, or at least parts of her, are where they belong....in the air!

TO

[T Bolt]

Stars and bars with red outline and RAF fin flash ?
Ed

Some Liberators from England did some temporary service in North Africa in 1943 and many of them came back to England wearing the RAF fin flashes. This time period also corresponds to the red outline in the stars and bars.(see pictures below of the "Strawberry B*tch") I wouldn't be surprised if some B-25's in North Africa at the time wore the same markings, but I think a B-25 surviving the war and returning to the states still with those markings is unlikely. My guess It was painted to represent a B-25 in North Africa. also the dimensions of the stars and bar doesn't look quite right, the bars seem too big.

[evangilder]

Good thought on that, Glenn. And the bars do look too long, but sometimes things like that were hand-done with no real spec, so it's anyone's guess.

[GrauGeist]

The insignia does look a little small, and there's no ID numbers anywhere...

Perhaps used in a movie at some point?

Also looks to be a little damage to the tail (stbd rudder & port side vert stab's leading edge).

[Airframes]

The red outline to the stars and bars was a short-lived addition between mid August and September 1st 1943. The RAF fin flash was a theatre marking for the MTO. The fin flash in the photo is of the wrong dimensions, being too tall and with the wrong proportions to the three colours (white should be narrow, one third the size of the red and blue).
I would guess it's been painted for a movie, and note the props, with the 'modern' metal finish, not black as per WW2 B25's.
Could possibly have been used, even if just for 'set dressing', in 'Catch 22'?
BTW, the helicopter is a S55 'Choctaw', known as 'Wessex' in the UK and Commonwealth.