pics ID help bf109G-10 or G-14/AS

[A4K]

I don't see any Werk nummer on the tail in the picture of white 44 above, it looks as though they painted over them completely.
It does seem to have a late G-10 rudder too, looking at those trim tabs.

Do you guys have any other pictures of 44?

Black 4's rudder is of the earlier style -either G-14/AS or early G-10, I'd say.

[phoenix7187]

Thanks for the info erich and wurger. Yes you are right, there were some early G-10's built at the erla plant what were equipted with the ASM power plant but these mechines did not carry the AS prefix because they were never meant for production but just a side effect of lack of DM engine and late war mess. So there is no G-10/AS.
After I believe june of 44 all 109's were equipted with the MW50 boost system. There for unlike other AS or ASM power G-4/6 varaints you can not ID them by the 100 oct fuel stencil as all Late G-14's, G-10's and K-4's would have the same Fuel requirments (dur to both high compression engines and a requirment to operate MW50 system)
So basically you can have a G-14 or G14/AS with a extended tail wheel and the G-10 type tail with no external trim tabs. You are both thinking the top one is a G-14/AS and the night fighter is a G-10.
I'm not at home right at this time, so I read over your post quickly, when I get back tonight I'll look at it more closely, Thanks again guy's.

[Denniss]

All G-6/G-14s used standard 87 Oktan B4 fuel. The only exception was during the introduction of the MW50 injection system when they initially used 100 Oktan C3 fuel (maybe during the introduction of the 605AS engine as well). Those aircraft were often marked with red colored landing gear. C3 was used to prevent massive engine damage by predetonation if MW50 failed while using the high boost. But the system proved to work reliable so they everted back to the standard B4.

The G-10 initially used C3 with MW50 but later standardized on B4+MW50. It could be reconfigured for C3 without MW50.

[A4K]

Wojtek mate, I owe you an apology! :

(From ’German aircraft interiors 1939-1945’ by Kenneth A. Merrick):

’...Another version of the G-10 was an interim model known as the Bf 109G-10/AS. This fighter, powered by the DB 605 AS engine, also appeared in November 1944 but was considered only a stop-gap variant until the production of DB 605D engines became more constant. Relatively few of the fighter, characterized by their slightly different cowlings and forward fueslage contours, were manufactured...’

(Photo of Bf 109G-10/AS W.Nr 150816 Black 4 of 6/ JG51 shows the bulge aft of the propeller (almost directly below the front exhaust) is non existant on G-10/AS aircraft, but very apparent on standard G-10’s)

Also mentioned:

’The Bf 109G-10 series employed several different rudders in combination with two different tail wheel legs.’ (Your white 44, and all three G-10/U-4’s exported to the US had: ) ’type 8-009.320 rudder assembly, characterized by fully adjustable Flettner trim tab located about mid way along trailing edge and supplemented by two additional tabs which were only adjustable on the ground’

[seesul]

off topic, sorry guys, but I like to know the opinion of you guys that haven´t seen this thread yet, especially A4K and Deniss
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...44-a-9055.html (Willi Reschke´s G-?, August 29th,1944)
What do you think and why? Add your answers to above mentioned thread please...

Many thanks

[A4K]

Done, Roman! Left a comment on the thread. Evan

[phoenix7187]

Originally Posted by Denniss

All G-6/G-14s used standard 87 Oktan B4 fuel. The only exception was during the introduction of the MW50 injection system when they initially used 100 Oktan C3 fuel (maybe during the introduction of the 605AS engine as well). Those aircraft were often marked with red colored landing gear. C3 was used to prevent massive engine damage by predetonation if MW50 failed while using the high boost. But the system proved to work reliable so they everted back to the standard B4.

The G-10 initially used C3 with MW50 but later standardized on B4+MW50. It could be reconfigured for C3 without MW50.

Denniss I did not know that. I was under the impression that all AS, and D engines due to higher compression, increased supercharger pressure, and the use of the MW50 specified 100 oct fuel. You could and they did use 87 but at the cost of performance loss and you could not use the MW50. Engine output on the d (I think) was rated at 2000 hp with 100 but 1850 with 87. Or is this in error.

Thanks all for the help on the ID. you gave me alot of great info.

[Wurger]

Originally Posted by A4K

Wojtek mate, I owe you an apology! :

[Denniss]

Originally Posted by phoenix7187

Denniss I did not know that. I was under the impression that all AS, and D engines due to higher compression, increased supercharger pressure, and the use of the MW50 specified 100 oct fuel. You could and they did use 87 but at the cost of performance loss and you could not use the MW50. Engine output on the d (I think) was rated at 2000 hp with 100 but 1850 with 87. Or is this in error.

Thanks all for the help on the ID. you gave me alot of great info.

605AS did not have higher boost, it was a modified 605A with a larger supercharger for higher rated altitude within the boost limits of the 605A. MW-50 was acting as replacement for an intercooler and it worked as anti-detonant to allow higher boost pressures with standard fuel. The 605D could be run with B4+MW50 or C3 without MW50 to achieve 1850, later 1800, PS. The higher boosted 605DC required high grade C3 fuel with MW50.

[seesul]

Originally Posted by Denniss

605AS did not have higher boost, it was a modified 605A with a larger supercharger for higher rated altitude within the boost limits of the 605A. MW-50 was acting as replacement for an intercooler and it worked as anti-detonant to allow higher boost pressures with standard fuel. The 605D could be run with B4+MW50 or C3 without MW50 to achieve 1850, later 1800, PS. The higher boosted 605DC required high grade C3 fuel with MW50.

Good info Dennis, thanks for that!