tango35
Airman 1st Class
Hello folks,
i am searching for Me 109 K of JG 26.
Could someone help me, please.
thanks in advance
Thomas
i am searching for Me 109 K of JG 26.
Could someone help me, please.
thanks in advance
Thomas
Request for Images of Me 109 K of JG 26
- Thread starter tango35
- Start date
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Will have a look through some references, I think they are rather scarce..?
A4K
Colonel
I've got the war diary of JG26 from 1943-45 at home mate with pics of many of their aircraft. I'll see if the 109 K is in there.
Thomas, I have found one reference to a Blue 26 from your PM to me...
Bf109K-4 Blue 26 W. Nr. 330152 of 12 Staffel,III/JG26 100% loss from aerial combat, 27.11.44 Ofhr. Helmut Lorberg.
If this is the aircraft you are looking for the camo would be as shown below.
camo is most likely RLM 75 83 upper and 76 lower surfaces.
data and images via Messerschmitt Bf109K Camo and Markings from JaPo.
Bf109K-4 Blue 26 W. Nr. 330152 of 12 Staffel,III/JG26 100% loss from aerial combat, 27.11.44 Ofhr. Helmut Lorberg.
If this is the aircraft you are looking for the camo would be as shown below.
camo is most likely RLM 75 83 upper and 76 lower surfaces.
data and images via Messerschmitt Bf109K Camo and Markings from JaPo.
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- Thread starter
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tango35
Airman 1st Class
Wayne, thank you very very much for your kind support !!
I saw your excellent built Me 262 - wow for 1/72 !
greets from the other part of the world
)
Thomas
I saw your excellent built Me 262 - wow for 1/72 !
greets from the other part of the world
)Thomas
You're Welcome, mate...
No luck with K-4 pics for JG26 so far, they are as scarce as rocking horse Sh*t.
No luck with K-4 pics for JG26 so far, they are as scarce as rocking horse Sh*t.
Heinz
Captain
Great stuff Wayne!
Thanks mate!
parsifal
Colonel
A4K
Colonel
G'day Thomas!
Found the following identities in the war diary of JG26 (no pics of -Ks, but some Gs):
All Bf109K-4 aircraft:
9/JG26 :
330390 White 21
330404 white 15
330372 White 21 (9pk/JG26)
10/JG26 :
330418 Black 8
330380 Black 28
330365 Black 17
330413 Black 8
330419 White 20
11/JG26 :
330357 Yellow 8
330386 Yellow 20 (11pk/JG26)
330354 Black 18
330385 Yellow 18
12/JG26 :
331323 Blue 22
331331 Blue 20
330349 Blue 29
330426 Blue 30
330152 Blue 26
330368 Blue 20
Inventory of JG/26 at December 31, 1944:
Stab: III. Gruppe
Type: Bf 109K-4
Total on strength: 29 aircraft
In operational condition: 13 aircraft
Total pilots on strength: 68
Available: 40
Fully combat ready: 29
Of limited ability: 6
If you need more info (pilot's of individual aircraft, dates of crashes, write-offs etc) let us know.
Found the following identities in the war diary of JG26 (no pics of -Ks, but some Gs):
All Bf109K-4 aircraft:
9/JG26 :
330390 White 21
330404 white 15
330372 White 21 (9pk/JG26)
10/JG26 :
330418 Black 8
330380 Black 28
330365 Black 17
330413 Black 8
330419 White 20
11/JG26 :
330357 Yellow 8
330386 Yellow 20 (11pk/JG26)
330354 Black 18
330385 Yellow 18
12/JG26 :
331323 Blue 22
331331 Blue 20
330349 Blue 29
330426 Blue 30
330152 Blue 26
330368 Blue 20
Inventory of JG/26 at December 31, 1944:
Stab: III. Gruppe
Type: Bf 109K-4
Total on strength: 29 aircraft
In operational condition: 13 aircraft
Total pilots on strength: 68
Available: 40
Fully combat ready: 29
Of limited ability: 6
If you need more info (pilot's of individual aircraft, dates of crashes, write-offs etc) let us know.
- Thread starter
- #12
tango35
Airman 1st Class
At first i would like to thank you all for your kind support and i have to beg your pardon that i didnt replied earlier; but the reason was that my computer was infected and i had to reinstall all stuff.
@A4K :
The actual informations you sent me are gold, and for further informations i am open and say thanks in advance, because my books about JG starts withe the intruduction of the Fw 190 D in the wing; i have the diary of the JG 26 , but unfortuantely only till 1942.
The fate of OFhr Lorberg is still unknown. Mr.Morbeek and the Deuthsche Dienststelle ( German Bureau for missing soldiers ) in Berlin are saying that he is lost in the plantlünne area, while Mr Caldwell - -the expert for JG 26 - writes that the aircraft was shot down by P-51 near Rheine.
Rheine and Plantlünne are only 30 miles away.
greets and thanks in advance
Thomas
@A4K :
The actual informations you sent me are gold, and for further informations i am open and say thanks in advance, because my books about JG starts withe the intruduction of the Fw 190 D in the wing; i have the diary of the JG 26 , but unfortuantely only till 1942.
The fate of OFhr Lorberg is still unknown. Mr.Morbeek and the Deuthsche Dienststelle ( German Bureau for missing soldiers ) in Berlin are saying that he is lost in the plantlünne area, while Mr Caldwell - -the expert for JG 26 - writes that the aircraft was shot down by P-51 near Rheine.
Rheine and Plantlünne are only 30 miles away.
greets and thanks in advance
Thomas
A4K
Colonel
In a quick check on the net I found the following info:
(from Missing In Action - JG 26 ) :
27/11/44 Ofhr. Helmut Lorberg 12./JG 26 Bf 109 K-4 (330152)
Blue 26 Combat with P-51 Gütersloh, near Plantlunne (?)
Will get that extra info from the diary regarding the previously mentioned identities to you asap, including Ofhhr Lorberg's Blue 26 - although Donald Caldwell is the author of this book too.
(from Missing In Action - JG 26 ) :
27/11/44 Ofhr. Helmut Lorberg 12./JG 26 Bf 109 K-4 (330152)
Blue 26 Combat with P-51 Gütersloh, near Plantlunne (?)
Will get that extra info from the diary regarding the previously mentioned identities to you asap, including Ofhhr Lorberg's Blue 26 - although Donald Caldwell is the author of this book too.
- Thread starter
- #14
tango35
Airman 1st Class
Thanks and i have to correct my self, cause the causality notice come from Les Butler and not from Caldwell.
So for my self the aircraft and the aviator are still mising.
greets
Thomas
So for my self the aircraft and the aviator are still mising.
greets
Thomas
A4K
Colonel
I have to check my translation of the event with my fiancée before posting, (translating from Hungarian), but according to Donald Caldwell, the crash site of Bf 109K-4 330152 flown by Ofhr Helmut Lorberg was 'Wettringen, Rhein district'. The unit logbook states time as 12.30 and reason as P-51 - but a description of the event by a fellow pilot seems to be a little unclear, with a problem with the motor being cited, another pilot later mentioning they were jumped by P-51s.
Will check with my girl as I say before posting the full details, to make sure the information is correct (my Hungarian knowledge is still limited). Will get onto the full aircraft/pilot/time and reason of loss list when I can.
Evan
Will check with my girl as I say before posting the full details, to make sure the information is correct (my Hungarian knowledge is still limited). Will get onto the full aircraft/pilot/time and reason of loss list when I can.
Evan
A4K
Colonel
G'day Thomas!
According to Donald Caldwell's The war diary of JG 26 part two: 1943-45 (my version the Hungarian edition 'A JG26 hadmüveleti naplója II. Kötet: 1943-45' (p.488 ):
27 November (1944)
The (US) 8th AAF still tried to push home attacks towards North-Western Germany, before the weather changed for the worst. 580 B-17 and B-24 bombers bombed 3 railway junctions before an Eastward moving weather front covered Germany in cloud. The pilots of the Geschwader could see the huge cloud mass approaching, and were very surprised when they received orders to take-off and rendezvous with Bf 109s of JG 3 and JG 27 and support them in the interception of the heavy bombers. At 11.05 Oblt. Gottfried Schmidt took off with 15 Bf 109s from Plantlünne, and met up with the Fw 190s of I.Gruppe over Furstenau. These consisted of some four aircraft, two other aircraft being unable to take-off. The III. Gruppe were authorised to go to high altitude, so started climbing to 10,000 m, a height that probably none of the pilots had ever flown at. The I. Gruppe Schwarm tried to keep up with the Messerschmitts, although the Focke-Wulf was very hard to control at heights above 9000 m.
According to Uffz. Georg Genth, the Messerschmitts were unable to keep to tight formation, rather staggering like drunks in the rough weather conditions. The cockpit of his Bf 109K-4 iced over, and he was only able to see straight ahead through the armoured windscreen. Genth was able to scrape away the ice in a small area on the port side canopy, which enabled him to see rearwards a little. He flew on, and when he noticed two P-47s turning towards them, gave the warning signal. He then dived (...) to escape the dense middle of the cloud mass. The cloud layer proved to be hundreds of meters thick, and Genth pushed his aircraft to it's extreme, which in the meantime had reached the maximim speed of 750 km/h, and even so was barely able to clear the cloud after an approximately 500 m dive. His engine cowling then suddenly flew off, and oil erupted from the overstressed motor. Despite that, he was able to land at Rheine, and later went back to Plantlünne. After he landed at Rheine, however, he heard the sound of three motors scream in the cloud above and saw the aircraft fall from the sky. One of them was piloted by Fhj- Uffz Robert Röhrig, and another by Genth's good friend, Ofhr. Helmut Lorberg. The two aircraft ploughed so deep into the earth, that the remains weren't excavated and positively identified until 1992. Georg Genth said he would never forget the horrible sounds he heard that day for as long as he lived.
It is not known if Lorberg and Röhring were shot down, or possibly just lost control of their aircraft in the cloud mass and were unable to keep their aircraft flying straight. (although the reason is recorded as 'P-51' in the unit's loss register: )
Date / Name / Rank / Status / Unit / Aircraft type / W.Nr / Call sign / Place / Time / Reason
44.11.27 Röhrig, Robert Fhj-Uffz. KIA 10. Bf 109G-14 460514 Black 16 Wettringen, Rheine area 12.30 P-51
44.11.27 Lorberg, Helmut Ofhr. KIA 12. Bf 109K-4 330152 Blue 26 Wettringen, Rheine area 12.30 P-51
(Four other pilots of the Geschwader were shot down by P-51s during this encounter, all surviving, one without injury, 3 with light injuries.)
According to Donald Caldwell's The war diary of JG 26 part two: 1943-45 (my version the Hungarian edition 'A JG26 hadmüveleti naplója II. Kötet: 1943-45' (p.488 ):
27 November (1944)
The (US) 8th AAF still tried to push home attacks towards North-Western Germany, before the weather changed for the worst. 580 B-17 and B-24 bombers bombed 3 railway junctions before an Eastward moving weather front covered Germany in cloud. The pilots of the Geschwader could see the huge cloud mass approaching, and were very surprised when they received orders to take-off and rendezvous with Bf 109s of JG 3 and JG 27 and support them in the interception of the heavy bombers. At 11.05 Oblt. Gottfried Schmidt took off with 15 Bf 109s from Plantlünne, and met up with the Fw 190s of I.Gruppe over Furstenau. These consisted of some four aircraft, two other aircraft being unable to take-off. The III. Gruppe were authorised to go to high altitude, so started climbing to 10,000 m, a height that probably none of the pilots had ever flown at. The I. Gruppe Schwarm tried to keep up with the Messerschmitts, although the Focke-Wulf was very hard to control at heights above 9000 m.
According to Uffz. Georg Genth, the Messerschmitts were unable to keep to tight formation, rather staggering like drunks in the rough weather conditions. The cockpit of his Bf 109K-4 iced over, and he was only able to see straight ahead through the armoured windscreen. Genth was able to scrape away the ice in a small area on the port side canopy, which enabled him to see rearwards a little. He flew on, and when he noticed two P-47s turning towards them, gave the warning signal. He then dived (...) to escape the dense middle of the cloud mass. The cloud layer proved to be hundreds of meters thick, and Genth pushed his aircraft to it's extreme, which in the meantime had reached the maximim speed of 750 km/h, and even so was barely able to clear the cloud after an approximately 500 m dive. His engine cowling then suddenly flew off, and oil erupted from the overstressed motor. Despite that, he was able to land at Rheine, and later went back to Plantlünne. After he landed at Rheine, however, he heard the sound of three motors scream in the cloud above and saw the aircraft fall from the sky. One of them was piloted by Fhj- Uffz Robert Röhrig, and another by Genth's good friend, Ofhr. Helmut Lorberg. The two aircraft ploughed so deep into the earth, that the remains weren't excavated and positively identified until 1992. Georg Genth said he would never forget the horrible sounds he heard that day for as long as he lived.
It is not known if Lorberg and Röhring were shot down, or possibly just lost control of their aircraft in the cloud mass and were unable to keep their aircraft flying straight. (although the reason is recorded as 'P-51' in the unit's loss register: )
Date / Name / Rank / Status / Unit / Aircraft type / W.Nr / Call sign / Place / Time / Reason
44.11.27 Röhrig, Robert Fhj-Uffz. KIA 10. Bf 109G-14 460514 Black 16 Wettringen, Rheine area 12.30 P-51
44.11.27 Lorberg, Helmut Ofhr. KIA 12. Bf 109K-4 330152 Blue 26 Wettringen, Rheine area 12.30 P-51
(Four other pilots of the Geschwader were shot down by P-51s during this encounter, all surviving, one without injury, 3 with light injuries.)
good stuff Evan....
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Evan, I have the english version;
pg 293
"I cleaned a small aperture in my left canopy pane, a few centimeters in diameter, by exhaling on it. I could then see behind me to my left. the canopy was otherwise covered in a thick layer of ice. As usual, my tactical position was at the rear of the formation, in the place of honor! I observed two Thunderbolts breaking toward our formation. In my condition I could not fight them. Being totally unable to defrost my canopy with my heater, I reported my condition over the radio and dove in a slpit-S into the cloud layer only a few hundred meters below. I remembered just in time that I had not switched on the arificial horizon. I did it while diving, since it was clear to me that I would have no chance to align the gyro properly in the clouds.
What should I do? I had escaped immediate danger of being shot down But I would have no chance to regain control of my aircraft in a cloud thousands of feet thick. I attempted to reduce my speed - about 600 km/h indicated - by pulling on the stick. To my discomfort, however, my speed kept increasing - the indicator now hit 750 km/h! I realized that I was in an inverted bank and now pushed the stick forward. My speed dropped immediately. I attempted to slow down to about 500 km/h so that I could make visual contact with the ground. However this was very difficult. Just as the indicator hit the desired mark, I left the cloud in a 60 degree inverted bank, about 500 meters above the ground. The canopy had now warmed up and defrosted and I could see again in all directions. Control forces were so great that I could not center the stick, so I clenched both hands together and struck the side of the stick as hard as I could. The unbelievable happened - the brave old 109 flipped over into a normal steep descent altitude, from which I could then pull out with the help of the trim wheel! At my terminal speed, the engine cowling panels had torn off and oil lines had split open from overpressure, but I could see again, and had my bird under control. I flew to Rheine, about three or four minutes away, without touching the throttle, my speed decreasing slowly.
I landed my oil-smeared bird smoothly and returned to Plantluenne by kubelwagon, a kind of jeep. Probably my good friend Helmut Lohrberg had had similar problems with icing and had not been as lucky as I. He has been missing since this flight. As I stood on the landing ground at Rheine after landing, I heard 3 aircraft crash with overstraining engines, all right around Rheine! To this day, I have not been able to strike these ghastly noises from my memory."
pg 293
"I cleaned a small aperture in my left canopy pane, a few centimeters in diameter, by exhaling on it. I could then see behind me to my left. the canopy was otherwise covered in a thick layer of ice. As usual, my tactical position was at the rear of the formation, in the place of honor! I observed two Thunderbolts breaking toward our formation. In my condition I could not fight them. Being totally unable to defrost my canopy with my heater, I reported my condition over the radio and dove in a slpit-S into the cloud layer only a few hundred meters below. I remembered just in time that I had not switched on the arificial horizon. I did it while diving, since it was clear to me that I would have no chance to align the gyro properly in the clouds.
What should I do? I had escaped immediate danger of being shot down But I would have no chance to regain control of my aircraft in a cloud thousands of feet thick. I attempted to reduce my speed - about 600 km/h indicated - by pulling on the stick. To my discomfort, however, my speed kept increasing - the indicator now hit 750 km/h! I realized that I was in an inverted bank and now pushed the stick forward. My speed dropped immediately. I attempted to slow down to about 500 km/h so that I could make visual contact with the ground. However this was very difficult. Just as the indicator hit the desired mark, I left the cloud in a 60 degree inverted bank, about 500 meters above the ground. The canopy had now warmed up and defrosted and I could see again in all directions. Control forces were so great that I could not center the stick, so I clenched both hands together and struck the side of the stick as hard as I could. The unbelievable happened - the brave old 109 flipped over into a normal steep descent altitude, from which I could then pull out with the help of the trim wheel! At my terminal speed, the engine cowling panels had torn off and oil lines had split open from overpressure, but I could see again, and had my bird under control. I flew to Rheine, about three or four minutes away, without touching the throttle, my speed decreasing slowly.
I landed my oil-smeared bird smoothly and returned to Plantluenne by kubelwagon, a kind of jeep. Probably my good friend Helmut Lohrberg had had similar problems with icing and had not been as lucky as I. He has been missing since this flight. As I stood on the landing ground at Rheine after landing, I heard 3 aircraft crash with overstraining engines, all right around Rheine! To this day, I have not been able to strike these ghastly noises from my memory."
A4K
Colonel
Thanks Chris!! I was hoping someone would have the English version!
I was unsure what the story was with the artificial horizon, hence the (...) !
The English (original) version obviously has alot more detail than the Hungarian version, as I translated it pretty much word for word (to the best of my ability, atleast, and with help from my girl where I was unsure) and you can see the difference! The Hungarian version was written in third person too.
Thanks again mate!
I was unsure what the story was with the artificial horizon, hence the (...) !
The English (original) version obviously has alot more detail than the Hungarian version, as I translated it pretty much word for word (to the best of my ability, atleast, and with help from my girl where I was unsure) and you can see the difference! The Hungarian version was written in third person too.
Thanks again mate!
