13./JG3 white9 FW190A-8/R2 please help! - Aircraft of World War II

TOMAS70 · 03-11-2009, 04:02 AM

Hallo to everybody,
this is my first posting in this forum and I hope you can help me with the following:
After some research I found out that a relative of mine was missing in action on the 3rd of March 1945 in the area of Stargard (Poland). He was a member of the 13./JG3 and flew FW190A-8/R2 / white9 / 680431 (this information should be correct)
I paid attention to postings on this topic, but, to be honest, I'm confused because of the quantity of information given and - especially - because of the mentioned changings of camouflage etc. in summer of 1944.
Please could you - I know there are specialists on this topic out there - give me detailed information how this aircraft looked like in February/March 1945?
I'd like to build a model of this special aircraft.
Greetings and thank you very much in advance for your help.

Erich · 03-11-2009, 09:27 AM

what is confusing of information ? some of the late model A-8/R2's had the outboard 3cm replcaed by 2cm cannon, the spinners sometimes were painted black, the colors were typical greys no speical ID markings like in July/August of 44.

do you have any flight logs for your relative, Obfhr. Josef Zeiner MIA ? as to when he joined service in the 13th staffel ?? since he was on a jabo op he most likely had a bomb carrier under the fuselage

TOMAS70 · 03-11-2009, 02:29 PM

Hallo Erich,
thank you very much for your quick reply! I read the posts again and with your additional information I see clearer now. Unfortunately all I have is one (!) photograph with the note that he did not come back from operation in March 1945. (This matches with the informaton I got out of the net.) Maybe I find out more in archives or forums later.

Erich · 03-11-2009, 05:21 PM

Tomas

have you had a chance to sit down and type out a letter to send to WAsT to secure Josef's records ? Thre may not be much at this firm but at least you can try and you must state that you are a relative. I am not sure what the web-site adresse is but they are on the web I think ?

good luck

E ~

TOMAS70 · 03-13-2009, 11:25 PM

Hi Erich,

I called WAsT and then filled out the request-form (www.dd-wast.de). Now waiting appr. 4 month for answer... Besides I found the following on Ciel De Gloire - Histoire des As de L Aviation de 1914 à nos jours :: Index :

Date Pilote Unité Appareil Localisation Heure Référence
12.09.1944 Fhr. Josef Zeiner: 1 13./JG 3 B-17 £ DG-9 at 8.000 m. [15 km. S. Templin] 11:40 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.82
27.09.1944 Fhr. Josef Zeiner: 2 13./JG 3 B-24 £ MU-MA-NU-NA: 7.500 m. [Eisenach] 11.06 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr. -
28.09.1944 Fhr. Josef Zeiner: 3 13./JG 3 B-17 £ JB at 8.500 m. [W. Halberstadt] 12:50 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.84
02.11.1944 Uffz. Josef Zeiner 13./JG 3 B-17 £ KD at 7.500 m. [N.W. Halle] 12:47 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr. -

So it seems to be sure that Ofhr. Josef Zeiner served in 13./JG3 from 12th of Sept. 1944 (I'd like to find out about the time before) 'til 3rd of March 1945 (under Olt. Oskar Romm, based Prenzlau(?)).

If you're (or maybe someone else ?) interested what I find out in the future, I'll post the results.

Greetings, T.

Erich · 03-14-2009, 11:00 AM

Tomas

yes I am interested in your findings. your relatives former schooling-flight should be included, and all his training before going into the Sturmgruppe from WAsT. The air battles he fought and scored victories on were some of the toughest air battles in the whole war. Do you have any photos of him at all ?

03-11-2009, 04:02 AM	#1
TOMAS70 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3	13./JG3 white9 FW190A-8/R2 please help! Hallo to everybody, this is my first posting in this forum and I hope you can help me with the following: After some research I found out that a relative of mine was missing in action on the 3rd of March 1945 in the area of Stargard (Poland). He was a member of the 13./JG3 and flew FW190A-8/R2 / white9 / 680431 (this information should be correct) I paid attention to postings on this topic, but, to be honest, I'm confused because of the quantity of information given and - especially - because of the mentioned changings of camouflage etc. in summer of 1944. Please could you - I know there are specialists on this topic out there - give me detailed information how this aircraft looked like in February/March 1945? I'd like to build a model of this special aircraft. Greetings and thank you very much in advance for your help.

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03-11-2009, 09:27 AM	#2
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 11,113	what is confusing of information ? some of the late model A-8/R2's had the outboard 3cm replcaed by 2cm cannon, the spinners sometimes were painted black, the colors were typical greys no speical ID markings like in July/August of 44. do you have any flight logs for your relative, Obfhr. Josef Zeiner MIA ? as to when he joined service in the 13th staffel ?? since he was on a jabo op he most likely had a bomb carrier under the fuselage

03-11-2009, 02:29 PM	#3
TOMAS70 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3	Hallo Erich, thank you very much for your quick reply! I read the posts again and with your additional information I see clearer now. Unfortunately all I have is one (!) photograph with the note that he did not come back from operation in March 1945. (This matches with the informaton I got out of the net.) Maybe I find out more in archives or forums later.

03-11-2009, 05:21 PM	#4
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 11,113	Tomas have you had a chance to sit down and type out a letter to send to WAsT to secure Josef's records ? Thre may not be much at this firm but at least you can try and you must state that you are a relative. I am not sure what the web-site adresse is but they are on the web I think ? good luck E ~

03-13-2009, 11:25 PM	#5
TOMAS70 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3	Hi Erich, I called WAsT and then filled out the request-form (www.dd-wast.de). Now waiting appr. 4 month for answer... Besides I found the following on Ciel De Gloire - Histoire des As de L Aviation de 1914 à nos jours :: Index : Date Pilote Unité Appareil Localisation Heure Référence 12.09.1944 Fhr. Josef Zeiner: 1 13./JG 3 B-17 £ DG-9 at 8.000 m. [15 km. S. Templin] 11:40 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.82 27.09.1944 Fhr. Josef Zeiner: 2 13./JG 3 B-24 £ MU-MA-NU-NA: 7.500 m. [Eisenach] 11.06 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr. - 28.09.1944 Fhr. Josef Zeiner: 3 13./JG 3 B-17 £ JB at 8.500 m. [W. Halberstadt] 12:50 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.84 02.11.1944 Uffz. Josef Zeiner 13./JG 3 B-17 £ KD at 7.500 m. [N.W. Halle] 12:47 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr. - So it seems to be sure that Ofhr. Josef Zeiner served in 13./JG3 from 12th of Sept. 1944 (I'd like to find out about the time before) 'til 3rd of March 1945 (under Olt. Oskar Romm, based Prenzlau(?)). If you're (or maybe someone else ?) interested what I find out in the future, I'll post the results. Greetings, T.

03-14-2009, 11:00 AM	#6
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 11,113	Tomas yes I am interested in your findings. your relatives former schooling-flight should be included, and all his training before going into the Sturmgruppe from WAsT. The air battles he fought and scored victories on were some of the toughest air battles in the whole war. Do you have any photos of him at all ?