B17-specifications needed....... - Aircraft of World War II

KRH308 · 03-08-2006, 02:19 AM

I stumbled upon this site while searching for information on the B-17. I am in the process of producing an animated short that revolves around a B-17 and its crew.
I want the aircraft in particular to be as accurate as possible, to avoid continuity problems, and also as a preventative measure to not disservice the people who were in direct relation to the plane.

I mainly need details about how the ship flew: what formations were typical for them, what planes accompanied them, how cramped was the ball turret- etc. ---small details-- would be greatly appreciated.

Also any information on the interior of the aircraft would be helpful, gunner positions, cockpit layout, and the interior of the ball turret is of special interest to me.

I really don't know much about this plane, and I really want to "get to know it" before I start any character writing/animation on it.

Thank you all in advance for your support!

Kevin

Gnomey · 03-08-2006, 07:21 AM

Formations (sources on right click):

Specs: http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org...7fortress.html

Cockpit Layout (thanks Eric

)

Planes that accompanied them: B-24, P-51, P-38, P-47.

FLYBOYJ · 03-08-2006, 08:39 AM

If you could get a copy of Flying Fortress by Edward Jablonski, I think many of your questions could be answered. Here's some more information....

I've been inside a ball turret, its very cramped and would suit someone about 5'5". You're basically on you're back and the gun site is right in front of you. Foot and hand pedals moved the turret around...

Here's a CAF link about the ball turret, there tons of stuff on the Internet, especially crew members diaries...

http://www.arizonawingcaf.com/pages/ballturret.html

evangilder · 03-08-2006, 11:11 AM

Hey, I recognize that shot, Gnomey.

I have other interior shots of B-17s on my website at:
http://www.vg-photo.com/bombers/b17/b17.html

If you need more interior photos, I have a bunch more. Just let me know what you are looking for and I can help.

KRH308 · 03-08-2006, 03:05 PM

Wow-What a wealth of information!

Thank you for all the great material gnomey, flyboy, and evanglider. The shots of the flight formations and interior views were most helpful. The plane is a lot more cramped than I had imagined. And the ball turret would be almost unbearably claustrophobic for some people.

How would the crew communicate with each other? I would imagine that the engine noise would be immense due to its non pressurized interior space, and the fact that they are REALLY big engines too! I would assume that they used some kind of radio feed to communicate.....

Gnomey · 03-08-2006, 03:12 PM

Yes there was an intercom system by which each of the crew-members could communicate with each other.

FLYBOYJ · 03-08-2006, 03:14 PM

You're quite welcome....

They communicated through an intercom system that was installed on the aircraft. Headsets were used and a "throat mike" was used to speak.

Erich · 03-08-2006, 03:21 PM

guys yes continue this thread to eternity if you would. post tons of "now" pics inside a B-17. I've got a load as well from some years ago, I'll see if I can get them scanned into the drive. Can say the three times I have been through them what a narrow fuselage, almost cramped going back to the waist position and finally the narrow dark tail position. All I can say is that those guys had balls flying in those heaps being fired on by Luftw. a/c and Flak

KRH308 · 03-08-2006, 03:23 PM

Yes- more interior shots would be helpful, mainly of the ball turret. It would be appreciated.
--crewmans diaries? sounds interesting.......

evangilder · 03-09-2006, 10:29 AM

Let me go through what I have. I don't know if I have many of the ball turret. They are usually closed off because they are pretty cramped and they like to keep the crumb crunchers out of them. But I am pretty sure I took one shot through the outside glass.

The intercom system had a junction box with a jack on it that the crewman would patch into when in position. I think I have a shot of a j-box too.

evangilder · 03-09-2006, 11:00 AM

So I went out seeking on my airplane pics DVD archive. I have 96 pictures that are just interior shots of the B-17 (3 different B-17s). I have sorted them into a temp directory on my laptop and will go through and crop, enhance and edit the images.

You gave me a heck of an idea. I have had several requests of closeups and different parts of the "guts" of airplanes. I think what I am going to do is start a modeller's section of my website for these kinds of more specialized photos. I have access to quite a few warbirds and if I can help a modeller do a more acurate depiction of an airplane, then it would be pretty cool. I will start editting the B-17s photos first as a beta and work from there.

Sound good, guys?

the lancaster kicks ass · 03-09-2006, 12:22 PM

yeah i do like looking at walk around guides, although my moddeling's not accurate enough to actually need them

just a question about the B-17's/all american intercoms, british wireless operaters could wire up any crew memeber's intercom to actually broadcast what they're saying, so if the w/o hooked you up, anyone could contact base in the event of an emergency, was this possible with the american system?

KRH308 · 03-10-2006, 04:34 AM

You guys are very supportive on this forum, and for that I thank you.
The animation I am doing is based on an actual event in which a B-17 was brought down after allied bombs ripped through the rear stabilizer and other parts of the plane. It was a freak accident that happened after a formation crossed under bombs being released from fellow B-17's and by accounts fell straight down to the earth. I am not one for a sad ending so I decided it would be neat to make it more like a Twilight Zone episode wherein the plane is saved by the painted insignia which specified the airships name "the lady liberty". It is important for me to be very anal when it comes to small details because I want it to come across as more real than fantasy. You guys are making it so much easier for me to achieve this!

Gnomey · 03-10-2006, 07:36 AM

Here are some pics of the event you are talking about KRH:

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/tail3.htm

evangilder · 03-10-2006, 10:55 AM

That is a classic case of the lower formation being in the wrong slot. They were staggered to avoid that, but obviously, with that many bombers up there, mistakes get made.

Give me a few days to get some edits done and I will get the interior shots up.

03-08-2006, 02:19 AM	#1
KRH308 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Traverse City, MI Posts: 4	B17-specifications needed....... I stumbled upon this site while searching for information on the B-17. I am in the process of producing an animated short that revolves around a B-17 and its crew. I want the aircraft in particular to be as accurate as possible, to avoid continuity problems, and also as a preventative measure to not disservice the people who were in direct relation to the plane. I mainly need details about how the ship flew: what formations were typical for them, what planes accompanied them, how cramped was the ball turret- etc. ---small details-- would be greatly appreciated. Also any information on the interior of the aircraft would be helpful, gunner positions, cockpit layout, and the interior of the ball turret is of special interest to me. I really don't know much about this plane, and I really want to "get to know it" before I start any character writing/animation on it. Thank you all in advance for your support! Kevin

03-08-2006, 07:21 AM	#2
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 15,224	Formations (sources on right click): Specs: http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org...7fortress.html Cockpit Layout (thanks Eric ) Planes that accompanied them: B-24, P-51, P-38, P-47. __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

03-08-2006, 08:39 AM	#3
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,051	If you could get a copy of Flying Fortress by Edward Jablonski, I think many of your questions could be answered. Here's some more information.... I've been inside a ball turret, its very cramped and would suit someone about 5'5". You're basically on you're back and the gun site is right in front of you. Foot and hand pedals moved the turret around... Here's a CAF link about the ball turret, there tons of stuff on the Internet, especially crew members diaries... http://www.arizonawingcaf.com/pages/ballturret.html __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

03-08-2006, 11:11 AM	#4
evangilder "Shooter" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 14,809	Hey, I recognize that shot, Gnomey. I have other interior shots of B-17s on my website at: http://www.vg-photo.com/bombers/b17/b17.html If you need more interior photos, I have a bunch more. Just let me know what you are looking for and I can help. __________________ http://www.vg-photo.com For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo Da Vinci

03-08-2006, 03:12 PM	#6
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 15,224	Yes there was an intercom system by which each of the crew-members could communicate with each other. __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

03-08-2006, 03:05 PM	#5
KRH308 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Traverse City, MI Posts: 4	Wow-What a wealth of information! Thank you for all the great material gnomey, flyboy, and evanglider. The shots of the flight formations and interior views were most helpful. The plane is a lot more cramped than I had imagined. And the ball turret would be almost unbearably claustrophobic for some people. How would the crew communicate with each other? I would imagine that the engine noise would be immense due to its non pressurized interior space, and the fact that they are REALLY big engines too! I would assume that they used some kind of radio feed to communicate.....

03-08-2006, 03:14 PM	#7
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,051	You're quite welcome.... They communicated through an intercom system that was installed on the aircraft. Headsets were used and a "throat mike" was used to speak. __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

03-08-2006, 03:21 PM	#8
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	guys yes continue this thread to eternity if you would. post tons of "now" pics inside a B-17. I've got a load as well from some years ago, I'll see if I can get them scanned into the drive. Can say the three times I have been through them what a narrow fuselage, almost cramped going back to the waist position and finally the narrow dark tail position. All I can say is that those guys had balls flying in those heaps being fired on by Luftw. a/c and Flak __________________ Rip it up !

03-08-2006, 03:23 PM	#9
KRH308 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Traverse City, MI Posts: 4	Yes- more interior shots would be helpful, mainly of the ball turret. It would be appreciated. --crewmans diaries? sounds interesting.......

03-09-2006, 10:29 AM	#10
evangilder "Shooter" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 14,809	Let me go through what I have. I don't know if I have many of the ball turret. They are usually closed off because they are pretty cramped and they like to keep the crumb crunchers out of them. But I am pretty sure I took one shot through the outside glass. The intercom system had a junction box with a jack on it that the crewman would patch into when in position. I think I have a shot of a j-box too. __________________ http://www.vg-photo.com For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo Da Vinci

03-09-2006, 11:00 AM	#11
evangilder "Shooter" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 14,809	So I went out seeking on my airplane pics DVD archive. I have 96 pictures that are just interior shots of the B-17 (3 different B-17s). I have sorted them into a temp directory on my laptop and will go through and crop, enhance and edit the images. You gave me a heck of an idea. I have had several requests of closeups and different parts of the "guts" of airplanes. I think what I am going to do is start a modeller's section of my website for these kinds of more specialized photos. I have access to quite a few warbirds and if I can help a modeller do a more acurate depiction of an airplane, then it would be pretty cool. I will start editting the B-17s photos first as a beta and work from there. Sound good, guys? __________________ http://www.vg-photo.com For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo Da Vinci

03-09-2006, 12:22 PM	#12
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	yeah i do like looking at walk around guides, although my moddeling's not accurate enough to actually need them just a question about the B-17's/all american intercoms, british wireless operaters could wire up any crew memeber's intercom to actually broadcast what they're saying, so if the w/o hooked you up, anyone could contact base in the event of an emergency, was this possible with the american system? __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

03-10-2006, 04:34 AM	#13
KRH308 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Traverse City, MI Posts: 4	You guys are very supportive on this forum, and for that I thank you. The animation I am doing is based on an actual event in which a B-17 was brought down after allied bombs ripped through the rear stabilizer and other parts of the plane. It was a freak accident that happened after a formation crossed under bombs being released from fellow B-17's and by accounts fell straight down to the earth. I am not one for a sad ending so I decided it would be neat to make it more like a Twilight Zone episode wherein the plane is saved by the painted insignia which specified the airships name "the lady liberty". It is important for me to be very anal when it comes to small details because I want it to come across as more real than fantasy. You guys are making it so much easier for me to achieve this!

03-10-2006, 07:36 AM	#14
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 15,224	Here are some pics of the event you are talking about KRH: http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/tail3.htm __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

03-10-2006, 10:55 AM	#15
evangilder "Shooter" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 14,809	That is a classic case of the lower formation being in the wrong slot. They were staggered to avoid that, but obviously, with that many bombers up there, mistakes get made. Give me a few days to get some edits done and I will get the interior shots up. __________________ http://www.vg-photo.com For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo Da Vinci

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