 | BF109 Ruder trim?| Aircraft Requests Discuss BF109 Ruder trim? in the Aviation forums; As memory serves,the rudders of Bf109s were balanced in a factories.Therefore there wasn't any possibilities to do ... |
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10-13-2007, 03:21 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Poland
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Country:  | As memory serves,the rudders of Bf109s were balanced in a factories.Therefore there wasn't any possibilities to do it later.
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10-14-2007, 11:59 AM
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#17 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Downwind.Maddl-Land  Check out the accident rate of 109G's and you'll see how right you are! Bit of a bu**er on landing I understand......... | I alway thought that was because of the narrow undercarriage.So additional of tis problem they had a trim problem as wel eh?
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10-14-2007, 12:19 PM
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#18 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country:  | Gentlemen - the rudder trim on take off or landing doesn't mean a whole lot - its in cruise flight or applying power in the climb where the rudder trim will relieve a lot of pressure on the legs.
During take off and landing you are "dancing" on the rudders, making little adjustments for P factor and any cross winds affecting the aircraft on roll out. With 1600+ HP you better be pretty light on your feet to keep things straight....
And Wurger, you are correct - the rudder is initially balanced at the factory. The only time its re-balanced if it is recovered in the field.
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10-14-2007, 12:34 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Downwind.Maddl-Land Check out the accident rate of 109G's and you'll see how right you are! Bit of a bu**er on landing I understand......... | don't blame the undercart it's 6" or 12cm wider then the Spits
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10-14-2007, 01:24 PM
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#20 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country: | To add more to this discussion - rudder trim would be an advantage on approach with a steady crosswind - again more of a luxury but still taking a bit of a load off the pilot.
In the past several months I have had a chance to fly quite a bit at work doing engine break-ins. Now that I have some experience under my belt in the Super Cub, I believe I've come up with some reasoning for the alleged high accent rate on the Bf 109...
1. Too fast on the flair - trying to get the plane down fast and not being quick enough on the rudder.
2. Not bringing the stick all the way back in the flare - on a nose heavy tail dragger you've got to get that sick in your belly and keep it there.
3. Allowing the aircraft to "bounce" and inducing pilot induced oscillation - See item 2. There is a tendency in a bounce to come forward with the stick - the tail will come up and the aircraft will continue to fly.
4. Dirt or grass strips - not the smoothest surface to land on. Combining 1 - 3, a good crosswind plus a low time pilot, you have an accident waiting to happen.
5. Not adjusting the controls for winds when on the ground during taxi. In a head wind the stick needs to be back, in a tail wind it needs to be down - ailerons also have to be adjusted for quartering winds as well. I'm sure there were hundreds of nose overs all all sides because of this.
I believe these are the big hitters for this situation and for some reasons the Bf 109 had this reputation. I'm sure there were many a pilot low on fuel trying to get that plane down quick with too high an airspeed in a cross wind and rolling on a rutty grass or dirt field.
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10-14-2007, 04:32 PM
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#21 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Gentlemen - the rudder trim on take off or landing doesn't mean a whole lot - its in cruise flight or applying power in the climb where the rudder trim will relieve a lot of pressure on the legs. | Ah yes, I remember that from my flying lesson. It's not that helpfull in quickly changing situatioons.
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"I'm no hero. Soldiers on the ground, they are heroes. In an aircraft you can always evade the bullets."
-Jan Linzel, Dutch fighter pilot | |
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12-17-2007, 10:29 AM
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#22 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,532
Country:  | 'Nicht Anfassen!'
G'day!
'Nicht Anfassen' means 'Don't touch!'
I guess once they'd got it ground-trimmed to their liking, they didn't want anyone mucking round with it !
Evan | |
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12-17-2007, 11:05 AM
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#23 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by A4K G'day!
'Nicht Anfassen' means 'Don't touch!'
I guess once they'd got it ground-trimmed to their liking, they didn't want anyone mucking round with it !
Evan | And if not bent properly the tab could be cracked or broken off.
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