Horton Brothers Flying Wings

[A4K]

Don't have time to read all the previous posts yet, but in case no-one's mentioned it yet, the famous 'Black UFO with large white circles under the wings' photographed in the US (in Nevada, I think) are actually photos of the Horten XIII under test and evaluation. Likewise the Ho IV glider was also tested in the US, and the Ho VI high altitude glider intensely studied at Northrop after the war.

[Henk]

Originally Posted by HealzDevo

With aircraft becoming faster, the question then becomes could a human ever have fast enough reactions to control these aircraft manually in the way WW2 fighters were controlled for example? I don't think so. I think we have to realize the fact that as aircraft become faster, there is a limit to how much control a human can have over the aircraft even with reflexes the average person would consider excellent. I think the fact is Henk that good idea or not computers are necessary to control high-speed aircraft as there is no way humans could make decisions or really react fast enough to really be practical. In fact I think we will see a lot of high-speed fighter aircraft become autonomous robot AI type vehicles to combat this problem with aircraft speed/human reaction time problem.

I agree with you that computers in aircraft is a must have these days.

A4k I have never heard of that before do you have any sources we can have a look at?

[A4K]

At home, ony a few photos in various books and magazines, though have seen other pictures elsewhere too. Send us your address in a PM if you like , and I can send you some copies of what I have.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by A4K

Don't have time to read all the previous posts yet, but in case no-one's mentioned it yet, the famous 'Black UFO with large white circles under the wings' photographed in the US (in Nevada, I think) are actually photos of the Horten XIII under test and evaluation. Likewise the Ho IV glider was also tested in the US, and the Ho VI high altitude glider intensely studied at Northrop after the war.

Hogwash - If any captured German aircraft were tested in the post war period, there was no reason to keep their flights classified.

[A4K]

You can see pics Joe of chevron shaped 'UFOs' in many UFO related magazines and articles - the following came from a quick search on Google, although I've seen better pics elsewhere (the one on the left here seems fake to me, but gives you an rough idea of the shape)

Google képkeresési találat: http://www.uforth.com/boom2/wedge.jpg


As for the Ho IV, a number are still preserved around the world, including atleast one tested post-war in the US, and now at NASM, Silver Hill, along with the remaining parts of the Ho VI, which was state of the art for it's time, and of great interest to the allies.

Will get my info together and type it out in case ya's think I'm just talking through my a*se... (and will send you my pics Henk)

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by A4K

You can see pics Joe of chevron shaped 'UFOs' in many UFO related magazines and articles - the following came from a quick search on Google, although I've seen better pics elsewhere (the one on the left here seems fake to me, but gives you an rough idea of the shape)

I've seen them before - again just a myth.

Think about this - anytime a covert aircraft is flown eventually it will be revealed. Remember you have support personnel, engineers, air traffic folks and a host of other people who will never keep a secret. I know the conspiracy theories sound neat; there would be no reason for the DoD to keep flights of the Horten flying wing under wraps, especially 60 years after the fact.

[A4K]

You may be right Joe, all I can say is my comment is based on what I've read in various books and magazines. Will type out what I've got and you can decide for yourselves if you believe it or not.

As for myself, knowing the development of the bell X-5 based on the Me P.1101 design, and Russian development of the He 287 and Ta 183 aircraft, I can just say it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they'd tested the Ho XIII design. It does seem a very strange coincidence atleast that so many sightings have been made of 'UFOs' in precisely that configuration, don't you think?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by A4K

You may be right Joe, all I can say is my comment is based on what I've read in various books and magazines. Will type out what I've got and you can decide for yourselves if you believe it or not.

Half those "sitings" and books are written by self-proclaimed experts who have never even been around combat aircraft or even in the military.

Originally Posted by A4K

As for myself, knowing the development of the bell X-5 based on the Me P.1101 design, and Russian development of the He 287 and Ta 183 aircraft, I can just say it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they'd tested the Ho XIII design. It does seem a very strange coincidence atleast that so many sightings have been made of 'UFOs' in precisely that configuration, don't you think?

There is no doubt in my mind the design was looked at but again as far as flying it, there is no reason for the US government to keep it under wraps.

I used to live around Edwards AFB and it was amazing the nut jobs that used to hang out around the base claiming to see UFOs. 99% of what was reported was easily explained.

BTW around the time the F-117A was revealed to the public, there were numerous stings of the aircraft, my ex wife saw one flying about a week before the program was formally announced. The USAF realized they couldn't keep the aircraft under wraps any longer and there is an expense in keeping a program classified - that's something else to consider as well keeping things secret cost money!

[Henk]

I do not believe those things. The Ho-229 V3 never flew and was brought from Germany they she was found. Some of the gliders did fly in the US and others remained in the Europe.

[A4K]

Yep, seems you're both right re the Ho XIIIa -my mistake, sorry.
The relation of the design was insinuated rather than stated with comparative photos between the 'Ho XIIIa' (actually Ho. H-X) and the Nevada chevron-shaped 'UFO' designs.
According to a Flug Revue article on the Horten flying wings, the Ho H-X was flown in 1943 already, but destroyed at it's base in 1945 by freed slave-workers.
The developments of the H-X, however, the Ho XIV and Ho XVIII, were under construction when US troops overran the factory, and it is surmised that these may been shipped to the US for evaluation and research. (I'm still looking for information to confirm or deny that)

Two Ho IV gliders were tested post-war in England (not the US as I'd remembered - again, my mistake), one being written off at a british gliding club, the other being sold to 'an American', being found in a crate in 1977 at the Smithsonian, and as at 1999, residing at the Planes of Fame museum, Chino.

Two Ho VIs were completed, one being destroyed in Germany, the other sent to Northrop, where it was examined and various components atleast ground tested, although the complete glider never flew in the US. It now resides at the NASM, Silver Hill.
http://www.twitt.org/ho_vi_si.jpg

[Graeme]

Originally Posted by A4K

the famous 'Black UFO with large white circles under the wings'

G'day Evan!

When I read your post I immediately thought of the 'famous' B-57 photo, with the "object" described as a "flying-wing UFO."



Debunked on this site...

ufo - UFOS at close sight: The B-57 1954 unseen UFO picture

[A4K]

Interesting picture Graeme! Looks like a Ho VII in inverted dive to me...what do you reckon..?

http://www.twitt.org/ho_vii_v_1_in_flight.jpg
Google képkeresési találat: http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/flying%20wings/images4/1.jpg

[HealzDevo]

While I don't have any references, if a look is taken at a lot of the Defence Website Projects, it becomes clear that there are a lot of robot projects around which can fly faster due to the fact that their limits are only mechanical rather than human as well. You have to reflect on the fact that even with a G-Suit to provide ability to function at high G-Forces, the planes can actually withstand higher g-forces than the pilot. Thus the pilot becomes a weak link in the plane. It just seems to be the next logical step in high-speed fighters to look at the necessity of having a pilot in the cockpit...

[A4K]

Scrub my Ho VII comment - What do you reckon of this, Graeme?
Google képkeresési találat: http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~FlyWing/image/YB-49_3view.jpg

The Northrop N-1M - seems to be the right wing form, although fueslage seems a bit thin in your photo (maybe just the angle it's on?)

[seesul]

Here´s what I´ve posted few weeks ago
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...old-12713.html (Horten 1b to be sold?)