Italian co- belligerent air force

[loomaluftwaffe]

awesome stuff DogW

[maxs75]

Thanks EAF51.
I'm looking forward for your ICAF OOB.
Yes I'm italian (Bologna).

Originally Posted by EAF51_Bear

By the way: do you only live in Italy, or R U Italian?


@ Maxs75: 155° Gruppo was not the only Macchi equipped unit within ICAF. Initially both 4°Stormo and 51° Stormo ICAF were using Macchis. Later on 4° Stormo was equipped with P-39, and 20° Gruppo/51° Stormo with Spitfires Vb/Trop and VC, while all remaining Macchi were assigned to 155° Gruppo/51° Stormo.
I will look at my files, because somewhere I have the full order of battle of ICAF. I will come to you as soon as I would find the requested infos.

I have the MC 205 (I think you refer to MC 205 only saying Macchi) at armistice date:
few with 3° Stormo CT (mainly equipped with MC 202, and few Bf 109)
special variant with 310° Sq. Ric. Fot.
some with 51° Stormo.
Main equipment of 4° Stormo (9° and 10° gruppo CT)
Main equipment of 21° Gruppo autonomo

Max

[EAF51_Bear]

Fammi sapere cosa ne pensi del sito!

Translation: let me know what U think about the website. Any contribution in news, pics etc. is welcome. Contributor will be mentioned in clear.

[Dogwalker]

Originally Posted by EAF51_Bear

By the way: do you only live in Italy, or R U Italian?

I'm italian.
The complete order of battle would be great!

[EAF51_Bear]

Still searching in my paper. I have probably to put together more sources from ny books. Be patient pls.

In the man time I found at least ONE of the answer to your requests.
Herewith following is a map of all ICAF (co-belligerant) and ANR (northeern) Italian Air Forces after September 8th, 1943



I hope this can answer to your question. Still seraching for the rest

[maxs75]

Thank You Bear!
Very interesting map. I'm waiting for the OOB! I hope you find it soon.
I really aprreciate the history pages, and I'm reading the articles one by one. I learned many new things reading them.

Thanks
Max

[EAF51_Bear]

Here again I am.

No news about ICAF OOB. I found Regia Aeronautica North Africa OOB and Regia Aeronautica Eastern Front (Russia) but is not waht you were looking for.

As you are Italian, i would like to suggest some books where you can read news about the ICAF (Italian Co-Belligerant Air Force), 1943-45. HWG:

Generic ICAF:

Giulio Lazzati – Ali nella tragedia – Mursia 1997

5°Stormo:

Giulio Lazzati – I soliti quattro gatti – Mursia, 1975 (Esaurito)
Adelmo Rigoli – 1943: decollo verso l’ignoto – LINT Editore, 1998
Paolo Voltan – Un pilota del cavallino Rampante – Editrice La Galaverna-Flaviana, 1990 (Esaurito)
Marco Mattioli - Bell P39 in Italian Service - Aviolibri IBN, 2003

51° Stormo (20° e 155° Gruppo):

Nicola Malizia – Quelli del Gatto Nero – I 60 anni del 51° Stormo, 1939-1999 – Stampato in privato, 1998
Gregory Alegi e Marco Gueli – Spitfire Italiani – Ufficio storico Aeronautica Militare, 2003

Stormo Baltimore (132° e 28° Gruppo):

Sponza e D’Agostino - Mister Bridge – Gabriele De Marco Editore, Treviso 1985 (Esaurito)
Antonio Mura - In volo tra guerra e pace, quarant’anni nell’Aeronautica Militare Italiana - Giorgio Apostolo Editore, 1995
Paolo Moci – Seguendo la Bandiera – Vita di un pilota - Giorgio Apostolo Editore, 2001
Ali Straniere in Italia, n.3 – Martin Baltimore (I Baltimore Italiani) – Ed. La Bancarella Aeronautica, 2004.

...and, by the way, i suggest you to download the documents you can find here (Italian language only, apologies!): DOWNLOAD

[twentynine]

hello, I add to this thread because I am searching infos on p-38 used in italy.
I know one was captured before 1943 (p-38g), repainted with fascist colours and used to kill a b-17 (photos?!?).
Then some p-38 was used by co-belligerants after the 1943....but I have no further infos on the squadrons or the field they were used.
Thanks

@EAF_51_Bear: Complimenti...bel sito.

[EAF51_Bear]

I believe U'r talking about this one...



A P-38G was captured by the Regia Aeronautica in Sardinia on June 12th, 1943. It seem the US pilot landed there because of the broken navigation compass.
Colonel Tony, C.O. of Regia Aeronautical Experimental Units (Centro Sperimentale di Volo di Guidonia) went to Sadinia, and flew the plane (painted with the RA colours, as yoiu can see in the picture) to Guidonia. As far as I remember, Col. Tondi, not knowing all the P-38 controls, by mistake ejected the canopy, so he flew part of the trip without the canopy windscreen.
In August the plane was also used in some intercept mission. In one of those Colonel Tondi shot down an american B17 of 419th BS, 301st BG.
After a flew flights the plane was therefore retired from service. The Italian fuel in fact was damaging the fuel storage compartment.

I have no news about any co-belligerant P-38. I know they have been used after the war by some Italian units. maybe I am wrong. Anyway there is a book on this subject:

M. MATTIOLI - LOCKHEED P-38 LIGHTING - In italian service 1943-1955 - english/italiano - Edizioni IBN, 136 pges, € 14,90 - ISBN: 8875650101

As far as I can remember P-38 entered in service in Regia Aeronautica at the end of may-beginning June 1946 (war over). The first unit using P-38 was 4°Stormo, based in Capodichino.

[cheddar cheese]

Originally Posted by twentynine

hello, I add to this thread because I am searching infos on p-38 used in italy.
I know one was captured before 1943 (p-38g), repainted with fascist colours and used to kill a b-17 (photos?!?).
Then some p-38 was used by co-belligerants after the 1943....but I have no further infos on the squadrons or the field they were used.
Thanks

@EAF_51_Bear: Complimenti...bel sito.

There was a captured P-38 that was left in American marking and was used to take down a few B-17's. The story is here http://www.p-38online.com/phantom.html

[EAF51_Bear]

There was a captured P-38 that was left in American marking and was used to take down a few B-17's. The story is here http://www.p-38online.com/phantom.html

- I feel this is simply an hoax
- There is no evidence of any Lt.Rossi flying a P-38,
- The B-17 were not "a few" but only ONE (as reported by USAAF Missing Air Crew Report nr.490)
- There were several others take off on scramble, and the pilot was L. Tondi (not Rossi), as proven by the official reports at Guidonia Airport

In my opinion the rest is pure fantasy, nice to read, but not true, unless proven by official reports

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by EAF51_Bear

- I feel this is simply an hoax
- There is no evidence of any Lt.Rossi flying a P-38,
- The B-17 were not "a few" but only ONE (as reported by USAAF Missing Air Crew Report nr.490)
- There were several others take off on scramble, and the pilot was L. Tondi (not Rossi), as proven by the official reports at Guidonia Airport

In my opinion the rest is pure fantasy, nice to read, but not true, unless proven by official reports

You may be very correct!

I show the only unit to fly the YB-40 was the 327BS, 92nd Bomb Group. They were stationed in England. Here's their site...

http://www.327th.org/327th%20Bomb%20Squadron.html

And I found a site that has a list of USAF personnel killed during the Berlin Airlift. There is no Harold Fisher...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-.../1330372/posts

[cheddar cheese]

Interesting....

[twentynine]

I know Italy was building a p38-like aircraft...but I really don't remember neither the builder nor the name of the plane.
Maybe some tests of this plane helped the mistake?!?

Someone remember the name of that plane...it's all the day I am thinking about it.

[EAF51_Bear]

@Maxs75:

As we say in Italy: "a promise is a promise!"
After a few researches in my books, I decided that your question about the OOB of the ICAF deserves something more than a simple short answer on a forum. So I decided to make in in a .PDF format, and to add it to my website.
You can find the document in download HERE
What you are looking for is the first download you find in that page.

Apologies for not-Italian readers, as the document is in Italian language. Anyway I believe the OOB tables can be read by not-Italian speaking too!