Ju-88, Ju-87, He-111, FW-189, Do-17 "Ring" turrets - Aircraft of World War II

Frantish · 12-12-2004, 02:30 AM

Hello all!

This will test anyones skill!!

Starting about 1938 the Luftwaffe started using what I like to call Ring turrets. It is basically a large "port hole" with the MG15 (sometimes MG81) mounted on its edge. The gun can be rotated around for optimal fiering angle. It was used on very many LW aircraft, including those in the title.

It is called the "Linsenlafette Z10d", made by "Ikaria"
The ring can rotate through 360*.
What I do not know is how much swivel the gun had. 60*? 65*? 70*? more?
Also, is the gun mouting axis parallel with the ring rotation, or is it a few degrees outward? (End result is larger cone of defensive fire).

Games are being made with incorrect information, and its no fun

Here is an image that details this turrets (left side).
YES, the gear is designed to keep the trigger/handel in the same downard direction!

Thank you, and please visit my website, link below!

R Pope · 12-12-2004, 10:30 AM

From your picture, it appears the deflection would be limited to about 60 degrees, or 120 degree cone of fire. Seems a lot of machinery for what it accomplishes, but then it is German!

the lancaster kicks ass · 12-12-2004, 11:32 AM

yet another example of the lack of german defensive armourment...........

Frantish · 12-12-2004, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Pope

From your picture, it appears the deflection would be limited to about 60 degrees, or 120 degree cone of fire. Seems a lot of machinery for what it accomplishes, but then it is German!

You have to think of how incredibly small the cockpits of these aircraft where. This is an excellent way for the gunner to get the best possible shot at attacking aircraft given the movment constraints inside the cockpit.

It is much better then the gimbal mountings used in other airforces.

Lanc, the ring turret in the image IS armored! I think its has 2 or 3 mm of steel supporting armored glass (10mm?) Often used in Ju-88a-4 and Ju-87B-2+. This one also had the MG81. It is a late 1940 mod.

JCS · 12-12-2004, 12:33 PM

I saw a Ju88 doc. with a film showing the movement of each of the guns and the rear gun had about 75* - 80*....

Frantish · 12-13-2004, 03:02 AM

JCS, thats great! You remeber the title of film by chance?

JCS · 12-15-2004, 04:38 PM

It was only that one short scene in it so I didnt see the title or anything. If you get the Discovery Wings channel or know anyone that does watch for the episode of "Wings of the luftwaffe" about the Ju-88, thats what it was in.

JCS · 12-19-2004, 04:12 PM

I think I found part of that film:

http://german.rsuh.ru/Avi/Ju88_5.avi

I'm not sure if thats it though, my computer is acting up and I cant download or stream it for some reason. But it looks like thats it from the thumbnail...

Archangel · 12-22-2004, 06:56 AM

i just can say, this is another proof for the german supreme technics in the second world war.

but as far as ik can see, it can move 70 degrees.

the lancaster kicks ass · 12-23-2004, 04:05 PM

suprime techniques?? a single hand operated MG can't stand up to a 4 gun power operated turret.........

cheddar cheese · 12-23-2004, 06:08 PM

It can when the power fails

plan_D · 12-23-2004, 07:18 PM

Plus the fact it's the engineering side you should look at. Those things took some thought to create and when built they nearing perfection. And, if not blown to pieces, will last for years in the same condition.

Archangel · 12-28-2004, 05:20 AM

yea.. and thats exacly what i mean

12-12-2004, 02:30 AM	#1
Frantish Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	Ju-88, Ju-87, He-111, FW-189, Do-17 "Ring" turrets Hello all! This will test anyones skill!! Starting about 1938 the Luftwaffe started using what I like to call Ring turrets. It is basically a large "port hole" with the MG15 (sometimes MG81) mounted on its edge. The gun can be rotated around for optimal fiering angle. It was used on very many LW aircraft, including those in the title. It is called the "Linsenlafette Z10d", made by "Ikaria" The ring can rotate through 360. What I do not know is how much swivel the gun had. 60? 65? 70? more? Also, is the gun mouting axis parallel with the ring rotation, or is it a few degrees outward? (End result is larger cone of defensive fire). Games are being made with incorrect information, and its no fun Here is an image that details this turrets (left side). YES, the gear is designed to keep the trigger/handel in the same downard direction! Thank you, and please visit my website, link below! __________________ THE SOURCE FOR ALL THINGS DORNIER 17, 215, & soon 217

12-12-2004, 11:32 AM	#3
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	yet another example of the lack of german defensive armourment........... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

12-12-2004, 12:33 PM	#5
JCS Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nicholson, PA Posts: 672	I saw a Ju88 doc. with a film showing the movement of each of the guns and the rear gun had about 75* - 80*.... __________________

12-13-2004, 03:02 AM	#6
Frantish Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	JCS, thats great! You remeber the title of film by chance? __________________ THE SOURCE FOR ALL THINGS DORNIER 17, 215, & soon 217

12-15-2004, 04:38 PM	#7
JCS Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nicholson, PA Posts: 672	It was only that one short scene in it so I didnt see the title or anything. If you get the Discovery Wings channel or know anyone that does watch for the episode of "Wings of the luftwaffe" about the Ju-88, thats what it was in. __________________

12-12-2004, 10:30 AM	#2
R Pope Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 134	From your picture, it appears the deflection would be limited to about 60 degrees, or 120 degree cone of fire. Seems a lot of machinery for what it accomplishes, but then it is German!

12-19-2004, 04:12 PM	#8
JCS Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nicholson, PA Posts: 672	I think I found part of that film: http://german.rsuh.ru/Avi/Ju88_5.avi I'm not sure if thats it though, my computer is acting up and I cant download or stream it for some reason. But it looks like thats it from the thumbnail... __________________

12-22-2004, 06:56 AM	#9
Archangel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NL Posts: 134	i just can say, this is another proof for the german supreme technics in the second world war. but as far as ik can see, it can move 70 degrees. __________________

12-23-2004, 04:05 PM	#10
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	suprime techniques?? a single hand operated MG can't stand up to a 4 gun power operated turret......... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

12-23-2004, 06:08 PM	#11
cheddar cheese Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: WSM, England Posts: 20,387	It can when the power fails

12-23-2004, 07:18 PM	#12
plan_D Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,978	Plus the fact it's the engineering side you should look at. Those things took some thought to create and when built they nearing perfection. And, if not blown to pieces, will last for years in the same condition. __________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club.

12-28-2004, 05:20 AM	#13
Archangel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NL Posts: 134	yea.. and thats exacly what i mean __________________

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