 | Major Graf| Aircraft Requests Discuss Major Graf in the Aviation forums; I'm going to be building a 109 G6 soon and the booklet says it was flown by a Major ... |
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08-18-2005, 10:51 AM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Saffron Walden/Sheffield
Posts: 3,001
Country:  | Major Graf
I'm going to be building a 109 G6 soon and the booklet says it was flown by a Major Graf in 1943, has anybody got any info about where he was stationed in 1943 and what happened to his plane. I think it is Black 1 and there are kill markings with some art on the tailfin.
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08-18-2005, 03:48 PM
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#2 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,507
Country:  | Here u go....
In the first half of 1943, Graf commanded Ergänzungs-Jagdgruppe Ost, an advanced fighter pilots’ training school, based at Bordeaux in France. On 21 July 1943, Jagdgruppe Süd der ObdL was formed as a high altitude fighter unit to combat RAF Mosquito twin-engine reconnaisance aircraft. On 15 August 1943, the unit was redesignated JG 50. Major Graf was tasked with leading JG 50, a role he performed until the unit was disbanded in October 1943 and absorbed into I./JG 301. Graf was to claim three victories while serving with this unit, including two USAAF B-17 four-engine bombers shot down on 6 September (204-205). Oberst Graf was appointed Kommodore of JG 11 on 11 November 1943. Over the next four months he would be credited with six victories on Reichsverteidigung operations despite being forbidden to take part in combat missions.
__________________  "This Was a Fight to The Death.... He's Out to Kill Me, and I'm Gonna Get Him..."
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08-18-2005, 05:44 PM
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#3 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,663
Country: | JG 50 was terribly unsuccessful in chasing down mossies. heavy US bombers were more to the units liking with many famous aces attached but even then kills did not come on a regular basis. The Br 21cm rocket launchers had already proven itself in JG 1 and JG 11, JG 26 as a joke on single engine jobs but JG 50 used them anyway and found all too soon that the underwing 2cm cannon were much better as an effective deterent in the air.
would suggest Christer Bergströms excellent work on Graf/Grislawski for your project and future research needs
♪
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08-18-2005, 06:11 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Saffron Walden/Sheffield
Posts: 3,001
Country: | Thanks for the info, Les and Erich!
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08-18-2005, 07:05 PM
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#5 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,507
Country: | Dont know if Graf ever flew a Black 1 aircraft though...
__________________ "This Was a Fight to The Death.... He's Out to Kill Me, and I'm Gonna Get Him..."
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08-18-2005, 09:10 PM
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#6 | | Your ad here. ;)
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,138
Country: | Great info guys!
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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09-20-2005, 11:35 AM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 527
| Cancelled.
Cancelled.
Last edited by GT : 04-10-2006 at 12:01 PM.
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09-20-2005, 05:07 PM
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#8 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,507
Country: | No idea.... Could be Hartmanns with the black tulip nose, but not sure on the green....
__________________ "This Was a Fight to The Death.... He's Out to Kill Me, and I'm Gonna Get Him..."
-- Capt. Stan "Swede" Vejtasa "Hollywood Finally Got it Right..." - 12/15/07 | |
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09-20-2005, 05:54 PM
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#9 | | Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 30
| It could be the hartmann's plane,Bf 109 G14 Black Tulip. The green marks are correct. Usually on the nose,near the exhaust were the JG 52 emblem that I don't see in your pic.
where did you take this pic?  ciao | |
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09-23-2005, 10:55 AM
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#10 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,663
Country: | a Doppelwinkel in Green ? that is weird.....the tulip marking is a JG 52 trait of course
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09-24-2005, 12:26 PM
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#11 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,557
Country:  | Hartmann flew it with the Tulip but the Gruppen Kommandeur identifier (doppelwinkel) in green is wiered. I have never seen that. It is usually white or black. And every picture or drawing I have seen of Hartmanns aircraft it was black also.
Hmm interesting maybe this aircraft was restored and painted innacuartly to look like Hartmanns aircraft.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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09-24-2005, 12:38 PM
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#12 | | Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 30
| Quote: |
maybe this aircraft was restored and painted innacuartly to look like Hartmanns aircraft
| I agree with you!
I have (anywhere) a color pic of a Bf109 with green marks,Russia 1942 i think... When I'll find it i will post it | |
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09-24-2005, 12:42 PM
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#13 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,557
Country: | I have only seen ones that were black and white. I am sure there were other colors out there but not on Hartmanns aircraft. I may be wrong but I have not seen it.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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09-30-2005, 10:00 AM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 145
| if I remember right, during the war, Hartmann also had the tulip pattern painted on the noses of some planes of selected 'cherry' pilots to give them time for experience...also he actually loaned him personal plane to 'cherry' pilots to give them combat time.... | |
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