Mosquito MM417 EG-T, 487 Squadron RNZAF

[Wirbelwind]

It seems that only the variants that were expected to fly at high altitudes had pressurized cockpits, along with engines that enabled them to perform at those altitudes.

Was the Rolls-Royce Merlin 25 able to perform at high altitudes?

 

[Wurger]

As memo serves, all variants of Mossie could reach the ceiling more than 10000m. So the answer should be yes. But all dogfights and missions during WW2 with Mosquito using were carried out at mid-level or low altitude.

 

[NZTyphoon]

Just an update on MM417: A Flypast Mosquito Special has an article on EG-T MM417: the article states that MM417 was not shot up by flak but was accidentally hit by "friendly fire" from another 487(NZ) Sqn Mosquito during an attack on an airfield: MM417, crossing the target diagonally at low altitude, flew into the cone of fire of another Mosquito which was coming in from a different direction. MM417 got back to base but was scrapped soon after. Unfortunately I have let someone else borrow my copy of Flypast so I can't quote directly or give full details as yet.

 

[Wurger]

An interesting info....

 

[mhuxt]

I have the Flypast article someplace upstairs, will try to dig it out, however the gist of what's posted above is correct. Hit badly by friendly fire, able to RTB, subsequently not repaired.

In answer to the question about the Merlin 25's performance at altitude, the 25 was specifically engineered to develop most of its grunt down low, so up high where a pressurised cockpit would be required was the wrong place for it to be. No FB.VI Mossies had pressurised cockpits, even those used by 100 Group for Bomber Support sorites over Europe. Unpressuriesed bomber Mossies were regularly over Berlin at, IIRC, altitudes generally from 24k to 27k feet.

 

[nuuumannn]

Just a bit of info regarding the fate of MM417, although it seems to have been resolved now anyway. Try contacting the RAF Museum at Hendon; they will have a copy of its aircraft movement and accident card. Every RAF aircraft had an a/c movement card (Air Ministry Form 78 ) and if it suffered an accident, an accident card (AM Form 1180). These gave only basic info, but include relevant details, such as units and where and when an accident occurred.

Before anyone asks about 487 being an RNZAF unit, so the info would be in NZ; it was not, 487 Squadron was an RAF unit, not RNZAF. The New Zealand squadrons in the 400 series RAF units, 485 to 490 were written as "487 (New Zealand) Squadron, RAF" and were never on the RNZAF's order of battle. This also applied to 75 Sqn, which became a NZ squadron during WW2. It wasn't until after the conflict that it became an RNZAF unit. 75 (NZ) Sqn was the first dedicated Commonwealth unit in the RAF.

In general the other countries' units in the 400 series were the same, although they were known as, for example, 453 (RAAF) Squadron; strictly speaking 453 was on the order of battle of the RAF, not the RAAF. Some of the 400 series units were adopted by their host nation post-war, such as the Canadian ones (409 and 410, for example), but during the war they were RAF units, just largely populated by personnel from their host nation.

 

[Airframes]

Correct. The numerical order assigned the 300s to Polish units and Canadian, 400s to Aus and NZ etc., but all were RAF units, with (mainly, but not exclsusively) personnel form the nation concerned. Exception being SAAF Squadrons, which were under RAF command, but were autonomous SAAF units.

 

[Crimea_River]

Correct. The numerical order assigned the 300s to Polish units and Canadian, 400s to Aus and NZ etc.,.

Terry, I believe Canadians were assigned 400 to 449

 

[nuuumannn]

The Czechs and Dutch were also assigned in the 300 RAF sqns. The 400 series units formed under Article XV of the Riverdale Agreement (after the British representative, Lord Riverdale) covered Australian, Canadian and New Zealand personnel that had trained under the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan (BCATP), or the Empire Air Training Scheme (EATS).

 

[Milosh]

The De Havilland Mosquito Hornet

 

[Airframes]

Oops! Sorry Andy, typo error !
Yes, RCAF were assigned 400 to 443, plus 1, 2, 110, 112 and 162.

 

[Milosh]

Although squadron numbers 444–449 were also reserved for the RCAF, it did not use them during the Second World War.

1 Sqd RCAF: The Squadron was renumbered No. 401 (Fighter) Squadron at RAF Driffield, Yorkshire, England on 1 March 1941.

2 Sqd RCAF: No. 2 Squadron RCAF was formed at RAF Digby, Lincolnshire, England, in December 1940 from personnel of No. 110 Squadron RCAF and No. 112 Squadron RCAF and initially equipped with the Hawker Hurricane Mk I. Renumbered as No. 402 Squadron RCAF in March 1941.

110 Sqd RCAF: The squadron was called out on active service 3 September 1939 at the start of the Second World War, and on 15 February departed Halifax for England. There it was re-designated as No. 400 Army Co-Operation Squadron on the 1 March 1941.

No. 162 Squadron is notable because it was one of the few squadrons that was not renumbered in the 400-series for overseas deployment as were most RCAF units.

 

[Crimea_River]

 

[tasso]

W Cdr Smith's new kite as EG(T) was HP924, which had quite a more interesting career. Blackie Smith was at the controls of this aircraft when he led a 24-ship raid on the German barracks at Poitiers in retribution for the murder of 34 SAS men. The Mossie spent some time with 464 Sqn RAAF as 'SB (C)'(there's quite a well-known photo here taken from on board during a raid on railway sidings in Germany) before reverting to 487 Squadron.

I'd love to know what happened to her in the end

 

[mhuxt]

The Air Britain Aircraft Serials books have this one being struck off charge on 30 August, 1947, after having served on 487, 464, 16, 268 and 69 Squadrons, the latter three almost certainly post-war.

 

[tasso]

Many thanks, I just found the same info. All rather confusing, as she'd been incorrectly listed elsewhere as having been written-off after a birdstrike when with 464 Sqdn

 

[nuuumannn]

Just to add to MM417's fate, FlyPast magazine published a 'Special' on the Mosquito titled Mosquito A Celebration of De Havilland's Wooden Wonder in 2009 and there is a four page piece dedicated to MM417 by Ray Kitching. Very interesting read.