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PARTS OF B17

Aircraft Requests Discuss PARTS OF B17 in the Aviation forums; Hello everyone! I am from Austria/Europe and found some parts of an Airplane at a B17 crashplace. The B17 which ...

  1. #1
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    PARTS OF B17

    Hello everyone!

    I am from Austria/Europe and found some parts of an Airplane at a B17 crashplace. The B17 which crashed there on May, 10th 1944 was the "The Irish Orphans" and the serial number was 42-31685 or 42-31804. I am not sure about the serial number. I just know that the pilot's name was Stanley Dwyer and that he is still MIA.
    I am looking for the crew list and any information which are available. Does anyone know what the "42" in the serial number means? Maybe the year when the plane was built?
    At one of the parts I found there was a serial number. Actually I found two numbers: 3-14911 and 6-10473. Next to the first serial number I found a sign which I redrew on a piece of paper (see picture). Maybe somebody has a spare part list of a B17G? I would appreciate any kind of help. So does anyone know what kind of parts these pictures show?

    Many thanks in advance,



    Kurtl
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PARTS OF B17-gesamtansicht.jpg   PARTS OF B17-dscn0473.jpg  

    PARTS OF B17-dscn0479.jpg   PARTS OF B17-dscn0497.jpg  

    PARTS OF B17-dscn0486.jpg  

  2. #2
    Senior Member the lancaster kicks ass's Avatar
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    the 42 is for the year the serial was issued... and that's the extent of my knowledge on the subject........

    "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

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    "Shooter" evangilder's Avatar
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    I can't really help with parts identification, but sometimes the numbers are manufacturing numbers or lot numbers.

    Stanley Dwyer was flying 42-31685 on a mission from Celone (Foggia) Italy over Weiner Neustadt on May 10, 1944. After bombs away, the group was attacked by 50-60 fighters and the aircraft became MIA.

    To help avoid any confusion, aircraft 42-31685 was called "Pete's Playhouse". The book on the history of the 775th bombardment squadron is called "Allyn's Irish Orphans".

    42-31685 was part if the 15th AF, 368th BG, 775 BS.

    Here is a photo of the crew
    Front: Sgt. D.O. Pratt; Lt. Stanley N. Dwyer, Pilot; Lt. Manley H. Dale, Co-Pilot; Sgt. Gail Popplewell. Rear: Sgts. G.P. Mitchell, J.J. Boros, D. Oldfather, J.J. Papazian.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PARTS OF B17-dwyercrew.jpg  


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    Thank you very much for your help!

    The picture is very interesting. I wonder where the 2 missing crew members are. Do you know the name of them?
    You are saying that Stanley Dwyer was flying 42-31685 on a mission from Celone (Foggia) in Italy over Wiener Neustadt on May 19, 1944. I have a book about "Bombs on Wiener Neustadt" there is a picture of Stanley Dwyer in front of a B17G-Nosesection. There is a name on the nose "The Irish Orphans". I am confused now. From where do you have your information?

    At the crashplace there is an american special force team searching for the two missing crewmembers. 5 jumped out and survived, 3 were found dead next to the wreckage, and 2 are still missing. The american team found a lot of bomb parts and they told me that the survivors of this B17 told that they still had some bombs on board when they crashed. An anti aircraft gun or fighter attack had damaged the bom release system.

    nice regard, Kurt

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    Pacific Historian syscom3's Avatar
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    I wonder if Jules participated in that mission.
    "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

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    "Shooter" evangilder's Avatar
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    It is quite possible that Dwyer flew other airplanes as well. By that time, in the bomb groups, they took what airplanes were available. I know a veteran from Rougham field that flew B-17s and he stated they did not have an "assigned" aircraft, but would take what was available. Only earlier in the war were crews and aircraft normally the same.

    The info I have on 42-31685 being called Pete's Playhouse is from the book of the 775th BS called "Allyn's Irish Orphans". I do not have a copy of it, I had to call someone else for it. It is very possible that another aircraft called The Irish Orphans was part of that squadron or group.

    MACR (Missing Aircrew Report) 4723 lists 42-31685 missing on May 10, 1944, not the 19th. It does not list the pilot, but does show 463rd BG, 775th BS. This conflicts with my earlier statement that it was part of the 368th BG, sorry that was incorrect. According to the 368th BG site, there were 34 aircraft sent up for the mission on Wiener-Neustadt, Austria on May 10, 1944. 7 of the aircraft were lost on that raid.

    There was a raid by the group on May 19 against Portomaggiore, Italy, with 26 aircraft up and none lost.


    > I Support Doug Gilliss <

    For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo Da Vinci

  7. #7
    Member jhor9's Avatar
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    Syscom,
    To answer your question re: Weiner Neustadt. I flew to WN twice - Nov 1, 1943 and sometime a bit later.At the time it was about the toughest target (before Ploesti) I recall the 11/43 flight from Tunis was 1000/900. We landed in Gela, Sicily. The following AM we received enough fuel to return to our base in N.Africa. I think that we lost 12 planes in the area, we attacked by over 80 of Goering's best

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    Pacific Historian syscom3's Avatar
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    Thanks Jules.

    Were the WN missions the flights you were co-pilot in?
    "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

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    Is it possible to read the MACR 4723 somewhere on the internet?
    I would like to know the names of the crew of Stanley Dwyer of Pete's Playhouse (42-31685) at May 10, 1944. Can anyone help?

    Kurt

  10. #10
    "Shooter" evangilder's Avatar
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    I don;t think there is a place on the net for it.
    * The Missing Air Crew Report (MACR) was authorized in May 1943 to record the facts of the last known circumstances regarding missing air crews. The report was prepared by the unit shortly after the aircraft loss, usually within 48 hours, and then it was sent on to Headquarters, AAF. However, it should be noted that some MACRs were prepared after the war as needs dictated. Also many were prepared at the end of the war to cover losses prior to the introduction of the MACR in the summer of 1943. That is why some 1942/1943 losses will have large (late) MACR numbers while those from summer and fall 1943 will have low (early) numbers.
    Missing Air Crew Reports (MACR) - if your research involves the loss of an aircraft in a combat situation and not in Allied territory, the MACR will be invaluable. This document was generated shortly after the loss of the aircraft (usually within a day or so) and lists the crew roster, aircraft, and basic details of the loss including eye witness statements if they were available.

    These records are maintained by the National Archives and Records Administration II in College Park, Maryland. Over time, the MACR report became a file, containing a collection of documents relating to the aircraft loss. You should request the entire file -

    MACR's, KU-Reports, Tactical Mission Summaries, replies may take two to four months.

    NOTE: most 15th AF records are stored at AFHRA, Maxwell AFB (see #4) instead of the National Archives. Records pertaining to the military in W.W.II are maintained at National Archives at College Park, MD (Archives II).

    AFHRA/RSA
    600 Chennault Circle
    Maxwell AFB, Alabama 36112-6424

    Send a request via mail with the MACR number and as much information as you have. You may want to include that you are researching this for a local museum or history center as they will be more helpful.


    > I Support Doug Gilliss <

    For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo Da Vinci

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    the old Sage Erich's Avatar
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    when in doubt check this excellent resource as Jules and I know it very well

    armyairforces.com

    join the fourms and post your questions and most likely you will have an answer plus other pics. Eric has done a good job in answering your questions but maybe you can pick up some additional information. As to fighter attacks in May of 44 Bf 109G-6 equipped Hungarian units were quite active as well as German JG 27 and the twin engine Zerstörer units ZG 1, ZG 26 and 76
    Rip it up !

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    IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO FLYBOYJ's Avatar
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    The bottom item looks like a high tension lead stll connected to the sparkplug...

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    Junior Member JCMRANGER's Avatar
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    MACR 4723 lists my uncle Lt. Gerald Gowen as the Pilot. His aircraft was shot down by flack the same mission as Lt Dwyer's plane. Allyn's Irish Orphans History has the planes and pilots switched. Two crew members survived from each plane. The last member of my uncles crew was buried in Arlington in April of 05. I talked with the two surviving members of Lt Dwyers plane last September and was told that Dwyers plane was 685 and my uncles was 804. As stated earlier and this is reinforced by post mission reports I have. These two pilots and crews flew both these planes at various times and the were in the rear left formation next to each other when the were shot down by flack. I have been confused over the years by the various reports from different websites and the Army Air Corp MACR but I must go with the living crew members when they tell me they were in plane 685. Both planes crashed near each other near the town of Neunkirchen (nine churches) I have had much pleasure in talking with the familys of my uncles crew and have had the pleasure of sending one man the only picture he has ever seen of his bother and a daughter a picture of her dad at his station in the plane. Thank you to all who sacrificed everything for us and to those who keep their memory alive. Joe Meyers
    Last edited by JCMRANGER; 09-11-2006 at 11:20 PM.

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    IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO FLYBOYJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCMRANGER
    MACR 4723 lists my uncle Lt. Gerald Gowen as the Pilot. His aircraft was shot down by flack the same mission as Lt Dwyer's plane. Allyn's Irish Orphans History has the planes and pilots switched. Two crew members survived from each plane. The last member of my uncles crew was buried in Arlington in April of 05. I talked with the two surviving members of Lt Dwyers plane last September and was told that Dwyers plane was 685 and my uncles was 804. As stated earlier and this is reinforced by post mission reports I have. These two pilots and crews flew both these planes at various times and the were in the rear left formation next to each other when the were shot down by flack. I have been confused over the years by the various reports from different websites and the Army Air Corp MACR but I must go with the living crew members when they tell me they were in plane 685. Both planes crashed near each other near the town of Neunkirchen (nine churches) I have had much pleasure in talking with the familys of my uncles crew and have had the pleasure of sending one man the only picture he has ever seen of his bother and a daughter a picture of her dad at his station in the plane. Thank you to all who sacrificed everything for us and to those who keep their memory alive. Joe Meyers
    Great info, thanks!

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    Pacific Historian syscom3's Avatar
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    [quote].....and have had the pleasure of sending one man the only picture he has ever seen of his bother and a daughter a picture of her dad at his station in the plane. ....quote]

    Good Job!!!!
    "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

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