 | Hamburg - A320 nearly crashed during crosswind approach| Aviation Videos Discuss Hamburg - A320 nearly crashed during crosswind approach in the World War II - Aviation forums; Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet
That was on Germans news as well but what they said is that the Tower warned ... |
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03-03-2008, 03:07 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet  That was on Germans news as well but what they said is that the Tower warned him of the bad cross winds but told him he was clear to land. | The controller can't tell him not to land providing the runway is clear the pilot should know the X wind limitations and his own. Its all on the pilot
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03-03-2008, 03:31 PM
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#17 | | aka Dickcheese
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Country:  | Pilot always has final discretion wrt weather phenomena. If he had no diversionary airport with better wx conditions, the controller can't deny him.
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03-03-2008, 03:46 PM
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#18 | | aka Dickcheese
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Country: | ICAO Doc 4444 PANS-ATM
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03-03-2008, 03:58 PM
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#19 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Country: | A319/320 Info....
Max 90° crosswind component (including gusts) for Takeoff and Landing
29 knots(U)
Max 90° crosswind component (including gusts)For CAT II/III
15 knots(U)
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03-03-2008, 05:40 PM
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#20 | | aka Dickcheese
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Country: | Good point FBJ. However, those are operating maximums. Not type design maximums.
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03-03-2008, 07:23 PM
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#21 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Country: | True Matt, but if you bend one of these aircraft those are the numbers the Feds are going to be looking at...
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03-03-2008, 09:23 PM
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#22 | | aka Dickcheese
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Country: | Not necessarily. If those maximums are not part of AFM Sect 3, Operating Limitations, then they become an operating curriculum per Part 121 whose enforcement is much more fuzzy from a regulatory perspective. As you probably are well aware, this is where the special interest groups like ALPA and IFALPA quickly come into play with lawyers and their interpretations.
I rather doubt that the AFM states "crosswinds of X speed/direction are prohibited".
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03-04-2008, 12:30 AM
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#23 | | Senior Member
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Country: | I saw that! omg that was so scary to watch on TV. I was amazed at how winds can push something of that size O.O he must have been a damn good pilot to stay on the runway the way he did. | |
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03-04-2008, 07:27 AM
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#24 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by Matt308 Not necessarily. If those maximums are not part of AFM Sect 3, Operating Limitations, then they become an operating curriculum per Part 121 whose enforcement is much more fuzzy from a regulatory perspective. As you probably are well aware, this is where the special interest groups like ALPA and IFALPA quickly come into play with lawyers and their interpretations.
I rather doubt that the AFM states "crosswinds of X speed/direction are prohibited". | But I could almost bet you that a 121 operator will state a max crosswind component in their ops manual that will have to be approved by the Feds. If it's exceeded and the landing comes out OK I'm sure there's some kind of self-disclosure that could be turned in. It it's exceeded and you scrape the wingtips and wind up on youtube I'm sure you're going to be talking to someone.
I'll ask my father in law. He was a standards captain and was checked out in the A319/320. Today he's doing sim work at CAE and is an examiner.
Don't know how the German Civil Aeronautic Authority will handle this one.
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03-04-2008, 08:20 AM
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#25 | | Older Than Dirt
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Country: | They made a very big deal about it, this morning, on Good Morning America.
Must'a showed the film clip a dozen times.... interviewed passengers, etc.
Charles
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03-04-2008, 12:06 PM
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#26 | | Senior Member
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| Maybe there was no pilot error about wind limit: if the wind force increased sharply when he was on finals he may have taken the right decision to attempt a landing when wind was whithin cleared parameters and had to face an emergency when force changed and he was too 'low and slow' to abort landing quickly.
I think this behemoths have a slow pick up time, if you are on finals and you apply full power probably you still need several seconds to wait for energy before attempting to climb.
More in this case when he had to work hard with rudder and aileron to counter the wind, so wasting a lot of energy.
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03-04-2008, 12:52 PM
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#27 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by Parmigiano Maybe there was no pilot error about wind limit: if the wind force increased sharply when he was on finals he may have taken the right decision to attempt a landing when wind was whithin cleared parameters and had to face an emergency when force changed and he was too 'low and slow' to abort landing quickly.
I think this behemoths have a slow pick up time, if you are on finals and you apply full power probably you still need several seconds to wait for energy before attempting to climb.
More in this case when he had to work hard with rudder and aileron to counter the wind, so wasting a lot of energy. | Parm, I think that would be the case if there was no damage but he did clip the wingtip and I'm almost wiling to guess that between the damage to the wingtip and inspection time of the airframe you're talking over $20,000 - in the US that's reportable to the NTSB. I don't know how the JAA would see this but I do know they are basically in unison with a lot of operator related issues like this.
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03-04-2008, 12:57 PM
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#28 | | Senior Member
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Country: | was he flying it manually or was the autopilot
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03-04-2008, 01:07 PM
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03-04-2008, 01:20 PM
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#30 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by Snautzer | Interesting....
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