The Ace of Aces

[pampa14]

I share with you this article with an extensive report and photos about the greatest ace of WW2, the German pilot Erich Hartmann:


Aviação em Floripa: Erich Hartmann: o Ás dos Ases


Hope you enjoy and I count on your visit!

 

[Timppa]

Thanks, some of the photos I have not seen before.

It is surprising, that a good biography of Hartmann still not exists (Toliver/Constable book does not qualify as good, far from it, IMO)

 

[gjs238]

From Wikipedia:

When the decorated British test pilot Captain Eric Brown asked Hartmann how he had amassed 352 air victories, he revealed:
Well you can't believe it, but the Sturmovik, which was their main ground-attack aircraft, flew like B-17s in formation and didn't attempt to make any evasive manoeuvres. And all they had was one peashooter in the back of each plane. Also, some of the pilots were women. Their peashooter was no threat unless they had a very lucky hit on you. I didn't open fire til the aircraft filled my whole windscreen. If I did this, I would get one every time.[34]

 

[drgondog]

Not everyone that Hartmann flew against was so accommodating.

I agree with Timppa that Toliver's bio left much to be desired, ditto Fighter Aces of the Luftwaffe. Tolliver and Constable set a standard for others to improve on as sources became more widely published but in my opinion left many facts off the table simply because they didn't have the resources to challenge the narratives.

 

[Juha]

From Wikipedia:

When the decorated British test pilot Captain Eric Brown asked Hartmann how he had amassed 352 air victories, he revealed:
Well you can't believe it, but the Sturmovik, which was their main ground-attack aircraft, flew like B-17s in formation and didn't attempt to make any evasive manoeuvres. And all they had was one peashooter in the back of each plane. Also, some of the pilots were women. Their peashooter was no threat unless they had a very lucky hit on you. I didn't open fire til the aircraft filled my whole windscreen. If I did this, I would get one every time.[34]

Funny things are
Hartmann wasn't amongst the top LW Il-2 killers, IIRC he was 59th with his 15 or so Il-2 kills and 12.7mm Berezin wasn't a peashooter.

 

[GrauGeist]

Funny things are
Hartmann wasn't amongst the top LW Il-2 killers, IIRC he was 59th with his 15 or so Il-2 kills and 12.7mm Berezin wasn't a peashooter.

But it didn't have a good field of fire directly behind and below, which was the favored angle of attack.

 

[Juha]

But it didn't have a good field of fire directly behind and below, which was the favored angle of attack.

Yes, but that was the problem of the position, not the gun which was roughly twice as effective as .5 M2. And Il-2s often, not always, flew very low to make attacks from below difficult.

Juha

 

[fubar57]

A bit of reading regarding you're accusations about VVS women pilots...

http://www.reinapennington.com/rjpPDFs/Not_Just_Night_Witches.pdf
586th Fighter Aviation Regiment - Wikipedia (sorry about the Wiki thang)

 

[fubar57]

Gunther Rall said the IL-2 was not an easy aircraft to shoot down because of all the armour. Infact many trainee or inexperienced pilots would use up all their ammo trying to bring one down. He said you had to dive down on it and use a deflection shot hitting the canopy + pilot was the best way to do it. But they were no turkeys for sure. As for women flying them. There were limited night fighter bomber women squadrons the germans called the night witches. I believe flying seagulls or some other obsolete bi-plane. But they were more of an annoyance than anything. Daylight raids were carried out by men only as it wasnt good propaganda to have dead women pilots being photo'd or filmed. Plus Hartmann would only fire his guns when he was literally right behind the enemy, which led to many crash landings due to him flying through enemy aircrafts debris. He was a lucky guy as much as he was skillful imo.....

 

[GrauGeist]

The Nachthexen were also from the 588th Night Bomber Regiment that flew the Polikarpov Po-2 - they paid dearly, though.
Lt. Kociok of 10./NGS200 was one example, who tore apart a Nachthexen raid with his Bf110, destroying 4 Po-2 in just one evening.

 

[Gemhorse]

I notice this title ''ACE OF ACES'' ~ Nothing like the great teutonic turkey-shooters in Russia, but this title is also the name of a book about the British Empire's Top Scorer - A largely unknown Ace of the RAF ~

Written by E.C,R Baker in 1965, published by William Kimber &Co. Ltd, I have got a 1973/74 New English Library Ltd, from Barnard's Inn, Holborn, London EC1; copy of this book about the late Sqn.Ldr. M.T. St John Pattle, DFC & Bar -

''The only concrete yardstick for naming the greatest fighter pilot of the RAF during WW2 is the number of confirmed ' kills', the score of enemy aircraft shot down. And it was to be some years after the War before Sqn.Ldr.' Pat' Pattle could be so regarded ~

Pattle was, virtually, an unsung hero, yet he shot down at least forty enemy aircraft in the short space of nine months.
Because of the bitter fighting over Greece, the records of Pattle's squadron never reached the Air Ministry files, but E.C.R. Baker has pieced together his amazing career with authoritative and exciting detail.'' - So reads the back panel of the book ...

I recently found this paperback in my bookshelf, I hadn't read it before, and I was off reading it every chance I had and what an awesome story, especially considering that most of his ' kills' were when flying a Gloster Gladiator, by then in the desparate struggle to try and hold Greece - They started getting Hurricanes and now on a slightly better footing to fight the Luftwaffe after sorting the Italians out, they fought on until he was killed and to stay on in Greece became untenable -

For those who like a good read and about a quiet busy corner of aviation history, you will not be disappointed ~

Cheers ~

 

[GregP]

If the MG in the back didn't have a very good field of fire behind and below, that explains the IL-2's propensity for flying at 50 - 100 feet AGL. If you are very low, an attack from behind and below is almost impossible. I've seen a lot written about Hartmann, but very little with any authority.

I HAVE seen some quotes and stories from some of his wingmen, who held him in high regard. But I have seen a LOT more written about pilots with less than one quarter of his victories. Perhaps his service almost exclusively on the Russian Front accounts for the dearth of pics and information. I'd suppose that, lacking a war correspondent, the people at a front-line airfield are much more concerned with the job than they are documentation of a squadron mate.

 

[soulezoo]

"Aces of Aces" is also the autobiography of one Rene Fonck