Aircraft Identification V - Page 225 - Aircraft of World War II

vikingBerserker · 06-27-2009, 02:27 PM

Ok, new one:

Tzaw1 · 06-27-2009, 02:33 PM

French Fouga CM88R Gémeaux 1

There are other minijets of Fouga. Very funny

http://www.minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=67

vikingBerserker · 06-27-2009, 02:38 PM

dammit.......

Nicely done!

Airframes · 06-27-2009, 03:24 PM

Heck! My immediate reaction was 'Fouga'! But then I thought it was too obvious, and the building in the background didn't strike me as French. I would never have even guessed the name or type number though. Nice one!

Marcel · 06-27-2009, 03:29 PM

Saw this on an airshow:

Tzaw1 · 06-27-2009, 03:37 PM

Very nice

At first I think about Büucker Jungmann or Tiger Moth.
But 00-GWC registration is:
Photos: Stampe-Vertongen SV-4C Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Marcel · 06-27-2009, 03:53 PM

Very good

Tzaw1 · 06-27-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carson1934

Good afternoon Tzaw1,
But tell me something, the picture you have submitted is it really the Ikarus 232 (predecessor of Ikarus 451)? Would you have more pictures of it?
carson1934

I found yet another photo 232.

imalko · 06-27-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tzaw1

I found yet another photo 232.

Sorry, but this aircraft on your photo has red star under wing insignia, which means that this is undoubtedly Ikarus 451 and not prewar "232". I have one great picture of "Pionir" (official designation Ikarus B-5), but I can't post it right now because I don't have a scanner. As soon as I scan this picture at my friend I will post it. The picture in question shows that B-5 apparently had unretractable landing gear.

Its a great photo never the less. Thanks for sharing TZ.

Tzaw1 · 06-27-2009, 04:52 PM

Photo came from Bojan B. Dmitrijević "Jugoslovensko ratno vazduchoplovstvo 1942-1992", page 45.
Photo description:

Quote:

Posleratni nastavak eksperimentalnog projekta aviona sa pilotom u leżećem polożaju konstruktora Beślina bili su avioni 232 i 451. Na slici probni pilot Tugomir Prebeg pored aviona 232. (VOC)

And, maybe this is an error, mayby not

I can't this verify.

carson1934 · 06-27-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tzaw1

I found yet another photo 232.

I don't know if it is 232 or 451 but it is an excellent and rare picture anyway. I shall wait for Imalko to scan his picture and then we shall see...
In the meantime thanks a million to both of you
carson1934

p

imalko · 06-27-2009, 05:55 PM

Well this confused even myself, but I believe I have finally figured it out. Prewar experimental airplane was designated Ikarus B-5 and it had fixed landing gear. As prevoiusly mentioned, I will post picture of this plane as soon as I can. As long as projects “232“ and “451“ are concerned these were both build after the war.

So, there were three types with pilot in prone position build in Yugoslavia and they were all designed by Dragoljub Bešlin. Reasoning behind this concept was that pilot in prone position will be able to better cope with g-forces when pulling out of the dive. First experimental project, Ikarus B-5, was therefore envisioned as a dive-bomber. One prototype was build in 1940 but flight tests were not concluded because of German attack on Yugoslavia in April 1941. Second project was Pionir 232 (one example build in 1947) and the third project, developed from Pionir, was Ikarus 451. There were two examples of Ikarus 451 build. First prototype 451/I made its maiden flight on 22 September 1951 with Lt. Radivoj Glavičić at the controls. Second prototype 451/II (now exibited in the museum) flew for the first time on 26 February 1952 piloted by Captain Tugomir Prebeg. After two years of testing project was eventually abandoned.

Here is the link for few more pictures of Ikarus 451:

IKARUS 451

carson1934 · 06-27-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imalko

Well this confused even myself, but I believe I have finally figured it out. Prewar experimental airplane was designated Ikarus B-5 and it had fixed landing gear. As prevoiusly mentioned, I will post picture of this plane as soon as I can. As long as projects “232“ and “451“ are concerned these were both build after the war.

So, there were three plane types with pilot in prone position build in Yugoslavia and they were all designed by Dragoljub Bešlin. Reasoning behind this concept was that pilot in prone position will be able to better cope with g-forces when pulling out of the dive. First experimental project, Ikarus B-5, was therefore envisioned as a dive-bomber. One prototype was build in 1940 but flight tests were not concluded because of German attack on Yugoslavia in April 1941. Second project was Pionir 232 (one example build in 1947) and the third project, developed from Pionir, was Ikarus 451. There were two examples of Ikarus 451 build. First prototype 451/I made its maiden flight on 22 September 1951 with Lt. Radivoj Glavičić at the controls. Second prototype 451/II (now exibited in the museum) flew for the first time on 26 February 1952 piloted by Captain Tugomir Prebeg. After two years of testing project was eventually abandoned.

Here is the link for few more pictures of Ikarus 451:

IKARUS 451

Therefore Tzaw1 was right about his post #3368 the pictured aircraft is a 232 even if there are red star insignia under the wings as both were built after WWII.
We are now anxiously waiting for the picture of your Ikarus B5 as soon as you can find a scanner!
I must say that it is a very nice comment to a rather intricate question...
carson1934

Tzaw1 · 06-27-2009, 06:29 PM

It seems, that is a small difference.
The nacelle below the fuselage is smaller and right at "232" (at foto left).
But at "451" the nacelle has central postion and is a bit greater.
And wingtips are cutted, it seems.

EDIT

From Zlatko Rendulić "Avioni domaće konstrukcije posle drugog svetskog rata" (Home constructed aircrafts after 2 WW")

vikingBerserker · 06-28-2009, 03:17 AM

Ok, I'll take another crack at it.

06-27-2009, 02:27 PM	#3361
vikingBerserker Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,722	Ok, new one: __________________ "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" "Those who dwell in the past, condemn the future"

06-27-2009, 02:33 PM	#3362
Tzaw1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Warszawa Posts: 193	French Fouga CM88R Gémeaux 1 There are other minijets of Fouga. Very funny http://www.minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=67 Last edited by Tzaw1; 06-27-2009 at 02:35 PM.

06-27-2009, 02:38 PM	#3363
vikingBerserker Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,722	dammit....... Nicely done! __________________ "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" "Those who dwell in the past, condemn the future"

06-27-2009, 03:24 PM	#3364
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,030	Heck! My immediate reaction was 'Fouga'! But then I thought it was too obvious, and the building in the background didn't strike me as French. I would never have even guessed the name or type number though. Nice one! __________________

06-27-2009, 03:53 PM	#3367
Marcel Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Dordrecht Posts: 3,834	Very good __________________ " The knack of flying lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."

06-27-2009, 03:37 PM	#3366
Tzaw1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Warszawa Posts: 193	Very nice At first I think about Büucker Jungmann or Tiger Moth. But 00-GWC registration is: Photos: Stampe-Vertongen SV-4C Aircraft Pictures \| Airliners.net

06-27-2009, 05:55 PM	#3372
imalko Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Vojvodina, Serbia Posts: 1,302	Ikarus 451 Well this confused even myself, but I believe I have finally figured it out. Prewar experimental airplane was designated Ikarus B-5 and it had fixed landing gear. As prevoiusly mentioned, I will post picture of this plane as soon as I can. As long as projects “232“ and “451“ are concerned these were both build after the war. So, there were three types with pilot in prone position build in Yugoslavia and they were all designed by Dragoljub Bešlin. Reasoning behind this concept was that pilot in prone position will be able to better cope with g-forces when pulling out of the dive. First experimental project, Ikarus B-5, was therefore envisioned as a dive-bomber. One prototype was build in 1940 but flight tests were not concluded because of German attack on Yugoslavia in April 1941. Second project was Pionir 232 (one example build in 1947) and the third project, developed from Pionir, was Ikarus 451. There were two examples of Ikarus 451 build. First prototype 451/I made its maiden flight on 22 September 1951 with Lt. Radivoj Glavičić at the controls. Second prototype 451/II (now exibited in the museum) flew for the first time on 26 February 1952 piloted by Captain Tugomir Prebeg. After two years of testing project was eventually abandoned. Here is the link for few more pictures of Ikarus 451: IKARUS 451 __________________ "Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant." Last edited by imalko; 06-27-2009 at 07:03 PM.

06-28-2009, 03:17 AM	#3375
vikingBerserker Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,722	Ok, I'll take another crack at it. __________________ "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" "Those who dwell in the past, condemn the future"

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