Aircraft Identification V

[carson1934]

Originally Posted by Waynos

The inline engine certainly makes it look very different. Speaking of different the 2E was the A-13 and the 2F became the A-17. They were similar but different aircraft.

Here's another

This looks very british but besides that I wouldn't know.....
carson

[carson1934]

Originally Posted by Tzaw1

Exactly. This is the Northrop Gamma 2ED-C alias A-17 tested by the A&AEE at Martlesham Heath. Summer 1935.
S/n: 47; US civil registration: X13760; RAF serial: K5053.

BTW I found other, new for me, Gamma's variant: 2G with Curtiss Conqueror SVG-1570F-4, Photo from Putnam's "McDonnell Douglas Aircraft Since 1920".

Hi Tzaw1,
your pictures are always beautiful, rare and instructive!
Let me tell you that on Aerofiles you will find one more beautiful picture of the Northrop Gamma 2G (serial number X13761) with in-line engine Curtiss SWG-1570-F4.
Cheers
carson

[carson1934]

Originally Posted by Waynos

The inline engine certainly makes it look very different. Speaking of different the 2E was the A-13 and the 2F became the A-17. They were similar but different aircraft.

Here's another

Hi Waynos
I don't mean to nitpick especially with a competent person of your caliber...However Aerofiles states that:
"Gamma 2C (1933) with Wright R-1820 prototype went to Army as YA-13. It was rebuilt in 1934 and designated 2F with P&W R-1830-7 became Army XA-16"
Cheers
carson

[Tzaw1]

Originally Posted by Waynos

Speaking of different the 2E was the A-13 and the 2F became the A-17. They were similar but different aircraft.

Yes. You are right. But by the A&AEE K5053 was probably descripted as A-17. See: Mason's British Flight Testing.

That last bird looks very british, but similarly planes were from France, Italy or Japan too.
No idea

[carson1934]

Originally Posted by Tzaw1

Yes. You are right. But by the A&AEE K5053 was probably descripted as A-17. See: Mason's British Flight Testing.

That last bird looks very british, but similarly planes were from France, Italy or Japan too.
No idea

I also have no idea but not italian for sure
carson

[Waynos]

There were so many twists and turns and variations in the Northrop Gamma story that there is much contradictory stuff out there, but basically we all know what plane we are referring to eh guys

You both got the country right for the latest one. It is British and although very a competent design for its day, a rarely seen type from a VERY famous maker.

[Graeme]

Originally Posted by Waynos

You both got the country right for the latest one. It is British and although very a competent design for its day, a rarely seen type from a VERY famous maker.

My source shows it spatless and with a longer nose but I suspect its the Avro 642 (G-ACFV). Googling also shows a 4-engine conversion, which is news to me.

[lingo]

Originally Posted by Graeme

My source shows it spatless and with a longer nose but I suspect its the Avro 642 (G-ACFV). Googling also shows a 4-engine conversion, which is news to me.

I'm sure that you are right Graeme. The prototype originally had a different nose altogether.

[Tzaw1]

But this is not really 642/2m
Waynos'es photo is from advertising.
They inserted carriage from 642/4m to the original photo.

[Waynos]

Well done Graeme - and bonus kudos to Tzaw1! The Avro went through various changes in its life but it seems Avro could not persuade anyone to buy it. Which makes me wonder what was wrong with it as, to my modern eyes, it doesn't look like it would be any worse than other contemporary designs. Its a shame you found the 4 motor version as I was going to use that after a few more pics just as a test

Advertising images are a great source from the 30's and 40's. You get a feel for what they *wanted* the plane to look like, Like the Heyford image below with its very refined fuselage, in comparison with what was built. They are also a good source for the first images of a type. Earlier in the thread I posted an image from Westland for what became the wyvern, taken fromm a wartime advert when its development had only just begun and its existance was top secret. Similarly there is a Blackburn ad that was printed in 1936/37 showing a 'generic' advanced monoplane in a dive that was revealed, several months later, and with a Mercury radial, rather than the 'Kestrel type' of the ad, to the the Skua, also below.

Finally, at the very bottom, is your next, image

[carson1934]

Originally Posted by Waynos

Well done Graeme - and bonus kudos to Tzaw1! The Avro went through various changes in its life but it seems Avro could not persuade anyone to buy it. Which makes me wonder what was wrong with it as, to my modern eyes, it doesn't look like it would be any worse than other contemporary designs. Its a shame you found the 4 motor version as I was going to use that after a few more pics just as a test

Advertising images are a great source from the 30's and 40's. You get a feel for what they *wanted* the plane to look like, Like the Heyford image below with its very refined fuselage, in comparison with what was built. They are also a good source for the first images of a type. Earlier in the thread I posted an image from Westland for what became the wyvern, taken fromm a wartime advert when its development had only just begun and its existance was top secret. Similarly there is a Blackburn ad that was printed in 1936/37 showing a 'generic' advanced monoplane in a dive that was revealed, several months later, and with a Mercury radial, rather than the 'Kestrel type' of the ad, to the the Skua, also below.

Finally, at the very bottom, is your next, image

Hi Waynos,
the advertising images are very interesting like everything you edit (btw would it be possible to get a few more of such ad images in colour?) however I must confess that last pic you are submitting represents such a
hideous monster that I can't even think of a country where it was manufactured...
carson

[lingo]

ST-10?

[Tzaw1]

Monospar Croydon alias General Aircraft S.T. 18

[Waynos]

Close lingo, but Tzaw1 has it! The ST.18 from General Aircraft Ltd. Carson nailed the description though, a hideous monster indeed

I think I'll sit back and let someone else post for a while or I'll run out of images. Carson, the ads are printed in black and white in the Jane's All The Worlds Aircraft and Flight mags that I have, plus the online Flight archive, which saves scanning old mags, but there was a book published dedicated to Aviation advertising art. I never bought it (though I intend to) and you should be able to find it on ebay.

[lingo]

Originally Posted by carson1934

Hi Waynos,
the advertising images are very interesting like everything you edit (btw would it be possible to get a few more of such ad images in colour?) however I must confess that last pic you are submitting represents such a
hideous monster that I can't even think of a country where it was manufactured...
carson

ER, in Britain designed by a Swiss!