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Thread: Alternative German Fighters: Me-209, Me-309, He-100, etc.

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    Senior Member CharlesBronson's Avatar
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    Alternative German Fighters: Me-209, Me-309, He-100, etc.

    Wich is his your opinion the best alternative for the BF-109/Fw-190 dinamic couple, also the development and caracteristics of those aircraft.


    Me-609.




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    Senior Member hellmaker's Avatar
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    Hey...now this model you posted is quite nice... It does resemble the P-51 from one side...doesn't it??? And a replacement for that couple coud have been the Me-262 if properly developed in time for the war...

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    Der Crew Chief DerAdlerIstGelandet's Avatar
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    An aircraft that I always thought was a great design and too bad it was not produced much ealier in the war was the Do-335. However here is a zwilling design of the Do-335 that was actually taken over by Junkers.

    Do-635

    In mid-1944, Junkers inherited the Dornier 335Z long-range reconnaissance (Z for Zwilling, or twin) program from Heinkel, who were brought in to assist Dornier because they lacked the experience in building such aircraft. After meeting with engineers from Dornier and Heinkel, Professor Heinrich Hertel decided that it would be late 1945 before the first prototype of the Do 335Z would be ready. He then referred back to Project 1075.01-21/W 00304, which would involve a lot less redesign and modification, and gave the date of Febuary 1945 for the first prototype to be ready. After a few more modifications (new main wheels, lengthened fuselages and an increased center wing both in chord and length), the RLM authorized the use of the 635 number, thus becoming the Ju 635. A purchase order for four prototypes and six preproduction aircraft was received.
    The Ju 635 used two modified Do 335 fuselages, joined by a center wing section of constant chord. The outer wing panels were tapered back, and two 1200 liter drop tanks could be carried beneath the wings to increase range. Four Daimler Benz 603E-1 engines supplied the power, one in each forward fuselage pulling and two in each rear fuselage driving a pusher propeller via a long drive shaft. Fuel was to be carried in ten internal wing tanks (see diagram below), four in the fuselages and possibly one in each fuselage bay. The port fuselage bay carried the two Rb 50/30 cameras (or one camera and one 250 liter (66 gallon) tank for GM 1 power boost) and the starboard bay contained five 60 kg (132 lbs) marker bombs. A crew of three was envisioned, although this could be stretched to four eventually. The pilot and radio operator sat in the port fuselage and a second pilot sat in the starboard fuselage. The fourth crew member (navigator) was to also sit in the starboard fuselage. The landing gear was to consist of two nose wheels (one under each fuselage nose), two main wheels which were fitted with mud guards to protect the rear radiator intakes, and a jettisonable fifth wheel located beneath the center wing, which was fitted with a parachute for recovery. The main wheels were modified from the Ju 352 B-1 transport's wheels. Two Walter RATO (Rocket Assisted Take Off) units could be fitted to assist take off. A variety of radars were to be fitted also, and no armament was included due to the fact that this was a long-range reconnaissance aircraft and thus all weight was reserved for fuel and speed.
    Near the end of 1944, the German government approached the Japanese about certain aircraft designs, the Ju 635 among them. Although they were impressed with the Ju 635's capabilities, and were interested in the project, nothing came of the meeting. By early 1945, windtunnel models had been tested and cockpit mockups had been constructed (see photos below), but by Febuary 5, due to the worsening war situation, all further work on the Ju 635 was stopped.

    Span: 27.45 m (90' 0") Length: 18.5 m (60' 8.3") Max. Speed: 720 km/h (447 mph)
    http://www.luft46.com/junkers/ju635.html
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -6352_113.jpg   -6351_119.jpg  

    -635_551.jpg  


    fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

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    Ive always like the He-100.


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    Senior Member CharlesBronson's Avatar
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    The 335 never was my favorite.

    The image above is the Messerschmitt Me-609 a proposed twin variant of the 309.

    The 309 was a heavy fighter, in the the category of the P-47 wich flew in June 1942, the firt prototipe was equiped with a DB-603a-1 de 44 liters and 1750hp, then in a weird regretion, the oters 4 aircraft flew with the DB-605 1475 hp, wich deteriorated the performances very much.
    Anyway this plane was heavily armed, the picture below, shows the V-4 wich has 2 Mg-131, 4 Mg-151 and a 30 mm gun.



    I am not sure what are the purpose of those large bulges in wings.

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    Senior Member the lancaster kicks ass's Avatar
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    proberly fuel, even extra ammo.........

    "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

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    Der Crew Chief DerAdlerIstGelandet's Avatar
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    The 335 was very advanced for its time and they even drew up plans to turn it into a hybrid jet/prop aircraft would have been neat to know the outcome of that.


    fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

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    the old Sage Erich's Avatar
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    all would have been replaced by superior revamped Me 262's. this was planned for 1946 in the day time and night fighter roles with additions of smaller swept back winged Fw jets .........
    Rip it up !

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    Der Crew Chief DerAdlerIstGelandet's Avatar
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    That could be true, but they would still have to fix the engine problems.


    fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

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    the old Sage Erich's Avatar
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    yes the engines were going to be placed more internally and the fuel shortages or at least the mix was being recitified at wars end
    Rip it up !

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    My choice would be either a He-162 D with swept back wings and V- tail or a Me-262 HG-III with 45 degrees swept back wings and the engines moved to the fuselage. That plane rocks! Better thrust:weight ratio, higher critical Mach number, simply great.
    ---delcyros---

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    Senior Member CharlesBronson's Avatar
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    Advaced aircraft, indeed , but it remained as project only.

    ChCh mentioned the Heinkel He-100, well I think that this aircraft was the best and one of the early capable of replace the 109. This plane was the quick response of Heinkel factory after the He-112 was badly beaten by the new design of Bayerische Flugzeuwerke.

    Originaly equiped with an internal radiator, wich use as evaporation surfaces the wings and fuselage of the aircraft itself. This save weigth and improve performance, mostly because the lack of external opening and low drag.

    This system working well in the dedicated record aircraft He-100 V-8, but was insuitable for a truly combat aircraft. the V8 used a DB-601R engine wich was feeded by a special mixture of 90 % 100 octane fuel and 10% methanol, this allowed 1775 hp for short periods.

    It take over the record at 746 km/h.



    Eventually the evaporation sistem wich his intrincated pipes and electrical water pumps ( 22 to be precise) was to be abandoned because his hard maintenance and the always present risk for a combat aircraft of a failure, wich can be caused even by a single 7,7 mm bullet piercing wich would make entire sistem broke and make quick engine overheat wich bring down the plane sooner or later.

    Anyway this sistem was put in the 3 D-0 series, then these Heinkels was send to japan.



  13. #13
    Senior Member the lancaster kicks ass's Avatar
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    my god what an ugly wing.........

    "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

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    Banned pasoleati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erich
    all would have been replaced by superior revamped Me 262's. this was planned for 1946 in the day time and night fighter roles with additions of smaller swept back winged Fw jets .........
    I doubt they could have made the Jumo 004 reliable and durable enough by that date. IMHO the Me 262 is the most overrate plane of WW two. And I hate jets anyway. The inventor of the jet should have been skinned alive and fed to rats.

  15. #15
    Senior Member the lancaster kicks ass's Avatar
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    hey that's a brit you're talking about................

    and the jet engine is one of the greatest inventions off all time.........

    "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

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