The Amerika bombers

[Hornet_Driver]

I just finished looking at a program on Discovery about Nazi Germany's plans to drop a low-altitude dirty bomb (bomb section surrounded with radioactive sand/silica) on NYC or Washington towards the last part of the war in Europe. It was interesting to see the vehicles that the three engineer/scientists- von Braun, Horten and Sanger were each working on to deliver a single dirty bomb. Wow! The Horten Bros flying wing that was designed to use 6 turbojet engines was a beautiful design. The program said that at the war's end, that aircraft would have been fully operational within 2 years had the war stretched out that far. Think about it. Roughly 3,500 miles to NYC and the 3,500 miles back, as well as some slop added in the event the aircraft had to divert was really some very forward thinking at the time. Horten was relying on the flying wing's less drag design to be the thing to make it all possible. Von Braun's design was basically a V-2 with stub wings. The method to launch that thing into low orbit was something else. A rail system with a booster section to push the thing down the track until it reach approx 6,000 miles per hour, thus slingshoting the thing up 120 miles and re-enter on a suicide attack to explode over NYC. Sanger's design was way too advanced for the time. He was seeking to put the aircraft into a low orbit, drop the payload in an arc from Pittsburgh and then push on through to the other side of the world to land in Germany.

If you haven't seen the program, definitely catch it.

[timshatz]

The US had a flying wing after WW2. Made by Lockheed? Anyway, they could never get it to work to it's promised potential. Tricky to fly, all sorts of problems. The Hortens were ahead of their time. Ahead of the technology too. Needed computers to make the sucker work. Light enough and powerful enough processors did not come around for a couple more decades.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

There is a good book to read up on this called: Luftwaffe Over America - The Secret Plans to Bomb the United States in WW2 by Manfred Griehl. I highly recommedn you read this book.

It discussed the different aircraft. The Germans had several prototype aircraft that flew before the war was over that had the range possible to make this happen, ie. Me 264, Ju 390, etc..

Now having said this the project was cancelled for several reasons, one being it was not going to happen. It was too far fetched and the Germans even knew it.

[mkloby]

I haven't seen the program. I'll try to check out when it's on next.

[SoD Stitch]

Originally Posted by timshatz

The US had a flying wing after WW2. Made by Lockheed? Anyway, they could never get it to work to it's promised potential. Tricky to fly, all sorts of problems. The Hortens were ahead of their time. Ahead of the technology too. Needed computers to make the sucker work. Light enough and powerful enough processors did not come around for a couple more decades.

Actually, Jack Northrop's company, Northrop Aircraft, built the first prop-powered flying wing, including a sub-scale demonstrator. I don't remember the "Y" designator for the prop-driven version, but the next-gen jet-driven flying wing (also built by Northrop) was the YB-49.

And, yes, they weren't very stable since they had no vertical surfaces; the B-2 is the first "stable" flying wing, and that's only because it's basically being flown by a (redundant) computer that's making corrections to the flight control surfaces several hundred times a second.

[Hornet_Driver]

Originally Posted by timshatz

The US had a flying wing after WW2. Made by Lockheed? Anyway, they could never get it to work to it's promised potential. Tricky to fly, all sorts of problems. The Hortens were ahead of their time. Ahead of the technology too. Needed computers to make the sucker work. Light enough and powerful enough processors did not come around for a couple more decades.

The Horten flying wing did make a flight. The model used had two turbojet engines, but somewhere during the maiden test and evaluation flight, the starboard engine suffered a flame out and the aircraft and the test pilot basically ended up doing flat arcs until the thing impacted. I suppose they were using the thrust to induce yaw and aid in banking. Goerhing supposedly ordered 40 of the Horten wings, regardless of the failed maiden flight. I guess this was one of his morphine-induced bright ideas.

[Hornet_Driver]

Originally Posted by SoD Stitch

Actually, Jack Northrop's company, Northrop Aircraft, built the first prop-powered flying wing, including a sub-scale demonstrator. I don't remember the "Y" designator for the prop-driven version, but the next-gen jet-driven flying wing (also built by Northrop) was the YB-49.

And, yes, they weren't very stable since they had no vertical surfaces; the B-2 is the first "stable" flying wing, and that's only because it's basically being flown by a (redundant) computer that's making corrections to the flight control surfaces several hundred times a second.

Hell, computer-aided flight control correction is the only reason why our newest aircraft can even fly. Hence, they make mediocre pilots look like superstars.

[MP-Willow]

Hello All! It has been a long time for me away, but I am now back. These bombers could have been ready much sooner, when they were needed to go over the Urals. Dose any one have thoughts on that? I know the 4 engine program was doomed when the general was kiled in a car accident, but that did not have to kill everything. I think that with some more work the Kondore would have worked. Could have been big trouble for the British, and would let the Me-110 be an escourt. Now you can all tell me how bad an idea that is

[johnbr]

Horton wings were a lot more stable then USA and Dr Horton new why the wing was not stable a he come up with his bell designed to over come it.His design did have snaking but he solved this after the war.

[machine shop tom]

Originally Posted by MP-Willow

Hello All! It has been a long time for me away, but I am now back. These bombers could have been ready much sooner, when they were needed to go over the Urals. Dose any one have thoughts on that? I know the 4 engine program was doomed when the general was kiled in a car accident, but that did not have to kill everything. I think that with some more work the Kondore would have worked. Could have been big trouble for the British, and would let the Me-110 be an escourt. Now you can all tell me how bad an idea that is

If you are talking about the FW200, it wasn't that great of a warplane. As a converted airliner, it was fragile, had poorly protected fuel and control systems, couldn't carry large bombload, etc. As for the Me110 escort, well, that in itself would need an escort of Me109s or FW190, both short on range for a long-range bombing mission.

tom

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I dont think he was talking about the Fw 200. He was talking about the German bomber designs that were being tested Ju 390, Me 264 and so forth.

[machine shop tom]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I dont think he was talking about the Fw 200. He was talking about the German bomber designs that were being tested Ju 390, Me 264 and so forth.

That's why I said "if". I wasn't really sure which one he was talking about and the FW200 Kondore (Condor) was the only one that was used to any extent.

Cheers,

tom

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The Fw 200 did not have the range to strike at the East Coast of the US.

[machine shop tom]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

The Fw 200 did not have the range to strike at the East Coast of the US.

Agreed. I was resonding to what MP-Willow said:

...I think that with some more work the Kondore would have worked. Could have been big trouble for the British, and would let the Me-110 be an escourt...

tom

[mosquitoman]

Nah, it was designed as an airliner and as such, wasn't strong enough to a) carry a significant bombload and b) not break up on landings, as many did with all the extra equipment on board