B-17G with a 20 mm cannon onboard!

[seesul]

One of 8 B-17´s shot down on August 29, 1944 in our area had a 20 mm cannon onboard! B-17G, serial # 42-31885,MACR8099, crash site Vyskovec.
A friend of mine found 20 mm shells at the crash site last year, then we noted a strange gun on the historical picture (attached) and this week I´ve found out this cannon still exist (pic attached, taken from Fragmenty z B-17G – Detektor web.cz detektory kovù!!!

More at 20 mm cannon aboard a B-17G???

[FLYBOYJ]

Wild stuff Roman - this is from the site you referenced...

[Milos Sijacki]

This is something completely new for me. That thing probably recoiled so much that it actually didn't do any good.

[comiso90]

Definition of helpless:
Sitting still in a B-17 armed with .50 cals and while a German fighter closes in popping off 20mm rounds and waiting till your .50s are in range.

arrgghhh!

.

[renrich]

Comis, I think you would find that a 50 BMG has a longer effective range than most 20 mms although not as destructive with a hit.

[comiso90]

I wonder where I picked that up then?..
seems like i heard a B-17 gunner saying it..
oh well thanks for the correction.

[seesul]

Originally Posted by renrich

Comis, I think you would find that a 50 BMG has a longer effective range than most 20 mms although not as destructive with a hit.

Renrich,

this is what you can find at mentioned discussion at ArmyAirForces.com posted by Martyjhawk:

Hi Roman,
From what I have read and been told, the few planes with the 20-mm guns flew the tail end charlie positions in their formations because the planes in this position were often attacked by fighters with guns of greater range than the 50's normally installed in the tail position. The fighters could lag behind the bombers and shoot at them, but the bombers lacked guns of effective range to shoot back...

[seesul]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Wild stuff Roman - this is from the site you referenced...

Joe,

we believe this cannon was mounted in tail. This aircraft was the last in the formation...I know this version did exist, but don´t have any pics. Don´t you have any?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by seesul

Joe,

we believe this cannon was mounted in tail. This aircraft was the last in the formation...I know this version did exist, but don´t have any pics. Don´t you have any?

I have no pics of this Roman but it would seem to me despite the photo of the nose mounted cannon, the tail would seem like the best place. I'll look around for some more information.

[seesul]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

I have no pics of this Roman but it would seem to me despite the photo of the nose mounted cannon, the tail would seem like the best place. I'll look around for some more information.

This is what I´ve found on Internet:
- 42-38090 340BS/97BG 'MISS WINDY CITY' was one of five B17Gs from 97th BG which had a similar 20mm cannon fitted in their tails
- The 99th BG also had at least one B-17 with the 20mm gun in the tail. Aircraft was 42-32046, LIL ABNER, according to Dick Drain's 5th Wing History of Aircraft Assigned.
- According to Roger Freeman's book The B-17 Flying Fortress Story, B-17's with these tail cannon were flown at the rear of formations, and the weapon was considered more of psychological than destructive value.'....

Anyway, the mentioned B-17G, 42-31885, was transfered to 2ndBG from 99thBG, see the copy taken from the database at Second Bomb Group
Assigned to 99th BG Feb 44. Transfer to 2nd BG 28 Mar 44 after 14 missions. MIA Moravska Ostrova 29 Aug 44 on its 49th mission, total 63. Attacked by fighters, crashed near Vsetin. Merrill Prentice crew, Heath, McVey, Laux, Goldstein, Ellis, Balcerzak, Johnson, Petrey, Fitch. McVey POW, rest KIA.

[seesul]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

I have no pics of this Roman but it would seem to me despite the photo of the nose mounted cannon, the tail would seem like the best place. I'll look around for some more information.

A friend of mine is going to scan the pics with the tail cannon mounting and send them to me. I´ll post them as soon as I get them...

[renrich]

If I was a gunner with a pair of 50 mgs confronted by a fighter with a pair of 20 mms, I would probably feel overmatched. I doubt that the gunners were too familiar with ballistic tables or the ballistic properties of the 50 BMG. In the Pacific the Wildcats liked the headon shot against the Zero not only because they had a more rugged fighter but because the flat trajectory of their 50s let them open fire before the Zero pilot had a good chance of hitting with a more rainbow trajectory of his 20 mm Oerlikons.

[FLYBOYJ]

Thanks Roman, I'd love to see them.

[Erich]

Roman the range in this case for aerial combat of the 20mm oerlikon (sp ?) was just plain terrible to the effectiveness of the .50cal besides being lighter they could of course rain out more destructive power than the US 20mm cannon - heavy, slow to operate and probably just a plain nuisance and not even having the overall range by using a heavier hand held weapon.

E ~

[seesul]

Originally Posted by Erich

Roman the range in this case for aerial combat of the 20mm oerlikon (sp ?) was just plain terrible to the effectiveness of the .50cal besides being lighter they could of course rain out more destructive power than the US 20mm cannon - heavy, slow to operate and probably just a plain nuisance and not even having the overall range by using a heavier hand held weapon.

E ~

yes, as they say:''the weapon was considered more of psychological than destructive value"
btw, have you ever seen a pic of B-17 with that Hispano in tail?
I´d like to know how many B-17´s had this instalation...