Best Aircraft in Many Different Roles Part II

[Civettone]

I thought about it, and the Mosquito was more versatile than the Ju 88...

And I don't know if the Fw 190 was more versatile than the Me 262, I just think it had more time to develop into new versions. The Me 262 was in production for less than a year. How many versions were there of the Fw 190 in mid 1942?

Kris

[Parmigiano]

Wespe, are you from Augsburg city or from the area (like Ellzee?)

[Wespe]

Originally Posted by Parmigiano

Wespe, are you from Augsburg city or from the area (like Ellzee?)

Hi Parmigiano

(Ellzee?) sorry I don't get that one.

I am from Augsburg-Lettenbach, why? do you have a Ice-cream or Pizza shop there?

Wespe

[Parmigiano]

@ Wespe

Just I am married with somebody from that area, and one of her relatives is more or less of your age, lives half the time in Germany and half in Far East (Thailand and Malaysia) and should be back in Germany this summer.
Ellzee is the little village where the family is from, about 30km from Augsburg.
Pretty a coincidence, just wondering if by chance you were 'him'

And hey, if you want to start with old fashioned stereotypes like pizza, mandolin etc. I must give you a fair warning :

I have a 30+ years experience of jokes in University, Military and Bar Sport, so I could go on for 3 months without repeating myself

Understood you little Kraut?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And the war has begun...

[Parmigiano]

No, no war, I just wnated to say that I have a long training joking on this stereotypes, like when she is pissed at somebody she ask me 'if I have a friend in Sicily who can talk to the person' and when she has a strong opinion on something I pretend to find on her head the label 'Krupp Metallwerke' and so on.

With her two brothers the jokes are much less refined...

[Civettone]

Yeah, Germans and Italians are two of the most recognizable stereotypes.




Unlike the Belgians ... thank God
Kris

[Wespe]

Hi Parmigiano

there is a fellow on this forum who told me that he mmfffhhp sorry likes mmppff Italian planes.

Maybe you got some nice mmppff pictures for him.

Have fun
Wespe

[Parmigiano]

Originally Posted by Civettone

Yeah, Germans and Italians are two of the most recognizable stereotypes.




Unlike the Belgians ... thank God
Kris

Are you sure? The French have a lot of jokes on Belgians, the kind of British have with Irish...

I suppose that there is no Country or race that is safe from stereotypes! Thanks God we can all laugh and apply some healthy self-deprecation

[Parmigiano]

Ciao Wespe,

if you mean Cheddar I suppose he has more material and knows more about Italian planes than me.

Just search the forum with some keyword like 'Macchi' 'Series 5' and so on, you will find several discussions.

And be more explicit with your 'mmmpppfff': as Italian I am way too lazy to ever think to make the effort to try to figure out the meaning. I could fall asleep right afterwards.

And btw 'Macchi' is 'Makke' in English phonetic, and (to continue impress you with my culture) it is 'Monna Lisa' not 'Mona Lisa': mona in Italian dialect means 'pu_sy'... while 'Monna' is contraction of 'Madonna', used as 'lady' in ancient Italian

[Wespe]

Originally Posted by Parmigiano

Ciao Wespe,

if you mean Cheddar I suppose he has more material and knows more about Italian planes than me.

Just search the forum with some keyword like 'Macchi' 'Series 5' and so on, you will find several discussions.

And be more explicit with your 'mmmpppfff': as Italian I am way too lazy to ever think to make the effort to try to figure out the meaning. I could fall asleep right afterwards.

And btw 'Macchi' is 'Makke' in English phonetic, and (to continue impress you with my culture) it is 'Monna Lisa' not 'Mona Lisa': mona in Italian dialect means 'pu_sy'... while 'Monna' is contraction of 'Madonna', used as 'lady' in ancient Italian

Hi Parmigiano
So I could say to an Italian girl: when you makke mona contractione I feel fantastico.

[dobravery]

Historically it's the Mossie hands down.
The P-38 could bomb strategically, but only did a handful of times.
The Ju 88 was very versitile, but never excelled in one function to the degree that the Mossie did.

Now hold on. . .
If I'm country X and I can only have 1 type of warplane, it would be a P-38.
Though not as well as the Mossie, the P-38 did have the range and bombload to atleast conduct a strategic strike (as in Ploesti).
The Mossie on the other hand would not have functioned well as a day-time air superiority fighter. Sure they have enough speed to bounce a single engined plane and run, but that's it.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Udet

I agree the P-38 was a very capable machine, but against the Fw190s and Bf109s the model took a hell of a pounding. It was in the Pacific where the Lightning saw its more memorable episodes.

What about the Ju88? Excellent both as medium bomber and (fearsome) nightfighter; an extremely versatile model

Actually the P-38J 'took a pounding' on about a 1:1 ratio air to air at high altitude in cold ETO air - a. the Allison reliability at 30,000 was dismal and b.) the 38 accelerated too quickly in a dive pursuit going into compressibility quickly so was easy to eavade.

These issues were fixed with the P-38L coming into inventory in May 44. The 20th, 55th, 364th and 479th scored very well in long range escort in the next months until they converted to 51's - and very well on the deck with the 9th AF after that.

The 38L (with dive brakes) changed the odds completely - I believe it was faster, could turn and climb with (and definitely outdive) the 190G-3 but not climb with a 109G-6AS. I'll have to look - I could be wrong on the initial climb against the 109Gs and never saw a performance test vs 190D.

The Mossie and P38 are a toss up - mossie the edge as a long range bomber, the 38 as a fighter vs fighter in daylight.. and mossie the edge as a night fighter.. both deserve consideration as Best All Around a/c built in WWII

[Cromwell]

P38

I often think if the US had not 'castrated' the P38 when sold to the Brits (not very helpful) and had given it contra-rotating props from the get-go then it would have been an entirely different scenario in the early war years.

And Cockpit heating too - that worked !

Imagine that during the BoB - the armanent on the P38 would have shredded Heinkels and JUs, and Flying-Pencils.

I think it could have made a Great strategic bomber, if it had been given a fair crack of the whip.

[imagine a P38 with 2 merlins]

Mossie

Could have used Contra (aka 'handed' ?) props

Also, somehow, a rear facing MG operated by the Navigator maybe on a swivelling seat ?

Some kind of fairing at the rear of the canopy, maybe slightly cut-down rear fuselage, could have saved a lot of Mossies from being Jumped from the rear (no one likes that).

Undercarriage

Its often forgotten that the Mossie was not only made of Wood - but used other Non-Strat methods like a Cart made from stacked Rubber bushes within a pressed mild steel casing

- also used Cables rather than hydraulics mostly - made it harder to shoot down too.

[Cromwell]

Meteor & Vampire

Both of these jets would I believe have made a big impact if the war had gone a little longer - or - if the RAF had been a bit snappier getting them into service.

Thing is, British Jets were essentially more reliable and easier to manufacture - and we had lots and lots of paraffin (gasoil) to run them.

And after the war the Meteor set world speed records and the Vampie set Altitude records.

Turboprops

I often fantasize about Turboprop powered Mosquitos and Lancs

It could have been done - and should have been done, really, as a lot of allied crews lives would have been saved by the higher performance at altitude imho that is.