Best Bomber Killing Aircraft......

[kool kitty89]

The Me 262 was certainly the best interceptor fielded. Even with the ongoing problems. (particularly the engines, which were much better by the war's end)

Though for a/c that saw more extensive service in the role, it's probably the Fw 190A-8. (maybe the A-9)

[Kruska]

Originally Posted by Erich

curious why are you posing a what if with the Do 335 in this thread as well as nf ? the way of the jet was at hand, all prop jobs except the Ta 152H were to be replaced during summer of 45 for Tagdjagd. the 262 single seat had proven itself, other gruppen would have followed for nf duties, the Do 335 was not even considered seriously in the nf role. I'm doing a book co-authoring on the NF Reich defence duties, data collected for over 35 years so there will be much included as to why I consider my statements as truth

You are correct in that this thread the question is about which aircraft is the best bomber killer. Taking into account the superb performance of the 335 and the asumtion that it could be additionally armed with 2 gondolas and R4M's it well could have been the best in this role. Adding the chance that it could also have been used as a NF. I am not aware that the 335 had any major engine difficulties such as any German jet.

I do not believe that the German jets would have achieved a reliable performance at any time due to the existing material shortage of alloys. No matter if summer or winter 45.

In contra I would strongly believe that this advanced technology was only exploitable by the US as it proofed after the war due to its seemingly endless resources and $$. As for Germany it proofed to be a fatal choice and instead of developing and pressing a new generation of affordable and technically developed props such as the USA in the form of a P51/P47 or F4U the limited resources in regards to material/scientists was diverted into "mystic" wunderwaffen believes.

The only new props available in 44 that could have been pushed faster into service were the 152 or D11-14 or the 335 but due to to the above mentioned reasons they were neglegted in favour of "mystic" a/c and weapons.

That the 335 was not ment to serve as a NF in 45 is certainly correct, therfore I am meerly forwarding the idea that it could have served in its role as a bomber killer just as well during night and day.

As for two of my uncles (one is a real uncle) and two of their Fliegerkameraden (3 survived the war) all were piloting from 39-45, none of them supported the jets as an alternative to the overall prop solution. If one of them would have flown a 262 it would not have changed their mind in regards to a "future" alternative but a presently needed realistic support in means of advanced props in 44/45

None of them believed in 44 that the war could be won (especially not by Wunderwaffen) but they desperatly eyed and waited for support by advanced props in order to stop the Bombers and not a 262 or other jets that were to unreliable to ensure that support.

Offcourse I do admit that a "working" and "reliable" 262 must have been the solution to any desperate Luftwaffe Pilot in 45, but unfortunatly they were not working reliable. In contra a 109K, D-12 or D-9 or 335 was.

Regards
Kruska
Attachment 62234

[fly boy]

me 262

[kool kitty89]

Another advantage of jet engines is onece you've got a design working it can be developed, expaded, and bulit upon at a rate inconcivable for piston engine designs. Hence why the US was able to catch up so fast even with the late start. The J31-to-J-33 and J30-to-J34 being the best examples of this.

However the original designs were still being worked out, had it not been due to some of the mechanical (turbine vibration) problems when switching from the 004A (1941) to the initial 004B design it would have gone alot smoother it wasn't till the 004D nearing production in early 1945 (produced before war's end,) that the vibration (and thus the 8700 rpm linit) was resolved. The 003 was still a bit from working in the same period as the 004 in '41 as it had both some compressor, turbine, and combustor problems to work out (basicle the whole design deeded work, hence the low power output of the early test engines), however it turned out to be easier to build than the 004B in addition to bing more compact, relaible, and better performing. And I'm not even going into the HeS-30 (006) design... And in hindsight the HeS-011 should never have been developed.

[Vraciu]

Over Europe - Me 262 with it's four MK 108 30 mm cannons;
Over Pacific - 1941/1942 A6M2 Zeke, 1943-1945 F6F and N1K2-J

[B-17engineer]

I really don't know but I would say Me-210/410, Me-110, or Me-262

[moomoo2]

Over the Pacific it would have to be the J2M Raiden. The only Japanese plane good in combat with the B29.

Over Europe the Me262 with its 4x30mm cannon and the R4M rockets was pretty tough as the rockets had the same trajectory as the cannon, so easy to aim.

Allied wise the Black widow or mosquito FB would cause alot of damage if you got in front of it.

[BIG BIRD]

The hienklel he 219 uhu was definitly a force to contend with at night. But during the day the me 410 hornes was bloody efective given that there were no escorts. With escorts the best interceptore would have to be the me 262. Keep in mind that with closing speeds of up to 700+ miles per hour the jet pilots coudent aim well or get many shots on target, its strengh was its speed could out run fighters. Luckly for the germans 4 30mm cannons don't need much hits on target to bring down a bomber.

[irshcountry]

First off, this argument on the 262 being too fast? WTF? Tell that to the Mig-15 pilots against the B-29s with there remote/radar gunners. I do like the a8/R8, but lets remember, it needed escorts, namely, 109G6s and G10s. The FW190A8/R8 was poor high altitude performer anyways, and all that added weight just contributed to it. Though, Macky stated that in a turn he could see the 30mm shells due to poor velocity. Ok, we got that, but 2 or 3 of those shells in the right place knock a 24 or 17 right out of the air, no question. And you never fire from a distance, lest you guys forget Erich Bubi Hartmanns motto,"Get so close the enemy fills your windshield"

[Burmese Bandit]

IMHO to kill bombers you need two things: Fast climb and heavy and accurate armament.

If this is the criterion...262. No argument. The only weak point of the 262 was the short range of the MK 108.

[Eurofighter]

I have to go with the Me 262, it had the speed to out run the escort fighters and the fire power to bring down a bomber in a single pass. I have seen pictures of B-17s and B-24s riped in half by an acurate burst of the Me 262's cannons and is not a pleasant view; although is notorious that the Me 262 suffered with problems by its unreliable engines once it was working properly it was a deadly bird.

[TheMustangRider]

It has to be the Me 262

[Clay_Allison]

The ME-262 with the Caveat that the Gloster Meteor might have been had it been needed in that role by that juncture in the war.

[cormallen]

Hi Folks

The answer is fairly dependant on whether our prospective giant killer has to cope with assorted "little friends" trying to butt in?!

If our herioc "defender-of-the-hearth" gets to play with the B17/B24/B29 formation without any uncouth interruptions then all you need is a plane that can catch cruising bomber formations... With B17/24 this is not really too hard given a sensible degree of warning. Assorted Ju88s carrying big cannons (37-75mm to taste really) and plenty of ammo will kill happily enough from outside fifty range?
If chasing high alt B29s is the game (and didn't they give up on that tactic vs Japs and ended up using them at low alt and at night mostly...rather like Lancs...cough-cough!) then something Like a Do335V13 or Me410D maybe needed?

If, as is likely historically, there are swarms of P47/51 type things around then you either need lots of Fw190D/Bf109G-K types to play with the escorts or... Me262s... regardless of their undoubted engine issues, they are the only thing to really have sufficient performance to have a chance of getting a good crack at the massed bombers...

Really "late" war german concepts start getting either utterly hopeless (what-no-fuel?!) or very space age (Luft'46 etc with swept wing creations loaded with guided missiles and SAMs joining in...) depending on desired reality level.

regards alan

[Colin1]

Me262
once again I haven't read the whole thread but I didn't detect any what-if about this post, so arguments like the P80 and/or Gloster Meteor are therefore null.

The Me262 was roughly 70mph faster than even the P47-M and carried an utterly devastating forward-firing armament, concentrated in the nose.

With this in mind, it didn't need to engage the escorts that were prevalent at the time, it could bore in on the bomber stream in the knowledge that 2-3 strikes, certainly somewhere near the main spar were going to be enough to bring down a heavy.

That's why I think the title bomber-destroyer serves the Me262 so much more appropriately than fighter; getting sucked in to the P51's game stood it a good chance of getting itself shot down.