Best Bomber Killing Aircraft......

[lesofprimus]

When I think of Bomber Killing Aircraft, I think of the Luftwaffe/Axis going after the hordes of Allied aircraft attacking Axis homelands....

And in that instance, theres nothing better than the A-8/R8 with the extra armor and 30mm Mk108's in the wings....

[Clay_Allison]

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

When I think of Bomber Killing Aircraft, I think of the Luftwaffe/Axis going after the hordes of Allied aircraft attacking Axis homelands....

And in that instance, theres nothing better than the A-8/R8 with the extra armor and 30mm Mk108's in the wings....

I beg to differ on the 30mm, it had a very low velocity and rate of fire so that it limited a fighter's opportunity to engage the target accurately.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Clay_Allison

I beg to differ on the 30mm, it had a very low velocity and rate of fire so that it limited a fighter's opportunity to engage the target accurately.

How would it limit it? With 30mm Minengeschoss it would not really matter.

[Colin1]

Originally Posted by Clay_Allison

I beg to differ on the 30mm, it had a very low velocity and rate of fire so that it limited a fighter's opportunity to engage the target accurately.

Low velocity was the key to large-calibre cannon's success. It meant an explosive hit anywhere on the body of the target aircraft, even the 'soft-skinned' areas rather than relying on the shell bumping into something hard, like an engine block. I'm not sure if calling it a bomber-specific weapon is entirely accurate but it was good at what it did. You also didn't really require that much of an opportunity when you consider the bomber is

i. quite big and
ii. in formation, holding steady

in order to engage the target accurately, it isn't jinking around like another fighter.

[Clay_Allison]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

How would it limit it? With 30mm Minengeschoss it would not really matter.

As the fighters got faster, especially the Me 262, their window of opportunity to engage the target was more and more limited, making it much harder to hit the aircraft on a pass with a slow shooting weapon that had a rainbow trajectory.

The prop planes so-armed had to get uncomfortably close to the bomber formation and their defensive armament to use it as well.

[Colin1]

Originally Posted by Clay_Allison

As the fighters got faster, especially the Me 262, their window of opportunity to engage the target was more and more limited, making it much harder to hit the aircraft on a pass with a slow shooting weapon that had a rainbow trajectory

Surely the better closing speed of the Me262 opened that window of opportunity, along with shorter lead time between thumping one bomber and moving on to the next?

[Clay_Allison]

Originally Posted by Colin1

Surely the better closing speed of the Me262 opened that window of opportunity, along with shorter lead time between thumping one bomber and moving on to the next?

The closing time was excellent, everything about the interception ability of the AC was incredible. I just think that if the Mauser Mauser MG 213 had been perfected and put into service they would have been better served by its' higher rate of fire than by the giant caliber of the 30mm.

[lesofprimus]

The Mk108 30mm Minen round was the most effective bomber killing weapon in the entire War.... Any other opinion is uneducated...

[Clay_Allison]

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

The Mk108 30mm Minen round was the most effective bomber killing weapon in the entire War.... Any other opinion is uneducated...

My problem isn't so much the cartridge as the cannon. A longer barreled, gas operated gun with a high rate of fire would have improved the passes/kills ratio tremendously.

As it is, it reminds me of a more reliable version of the P-39's gun.

[delcyros]

What is wrong with the MK 108´s rate of fire?
650 rounds per minute is pretty neat for a waepon of this size (compare: 20mm Hispano MK II: 600 rpm). Late war (1945) versions had their rate increased to 850 rounds per minute, making it the fastest firing large calibre gun to see service in ww2.
High rates of fire in combination with low muzzle velocity also implies a small mean statistical distance between two successive shells and correspondingly a very high density of fire. That comes in handy while engaging aerial targets.

[Erich]

what can I say except to view LW gun cam footage late war and witness the terrible destructive power of said weapon on B-17/B-24's. the LW said from the very beginning this was a close in to engage weapon to assure maximum firepower and effectiveness

[TenGunTerror]

Although it couldn't get up to altitude fast or could maneuver at high altitudes good, the P-39 could usually take out most Luftwaffe bombers with a single 37mm shell and had many machine guns to boot

[Erich]

and what is your basis for P-39's attacking LW bombers ?

fighter vs fighter yes but most importantly ground attack for that crate

[delcyros]

hmm, the P-39´s 37mm M9 has a comparably low muzzle velocity as the MK 108 but only 140 rpm rate of fire (instead of 600 to 850 for the MK 10. In top of this, the M37 has less explosive cavity, so I would rate it inferior to the MK 108 in the bomber killing role.
It´s not such a lightweight weapon, too...

[Civettone]

Originally Posted by Erich

and what is your basis for P-39's attacking LW bombers ?

fighter vs fighter yes but most importantly ground attack for that crate

Apparently that's a myth... The P-39 was used as a fighter and not as a ground attack aircraft. Of course it could be used that way but apparently not more than other fighters.

On the other side, many P-39s were rearmed with 20mm guns... though that may have been only during the early stages.


Kris