The Best Bomber of WWII: #4 - Page 3 - Aircraft of World War II

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-13-2006, 05:07 PM

ok sys i did want you want, it took me several hours but i did it!

ok so you stated over Europe the B-24 did 715 sorties from january 1st 1942 'til june 30th 1943 for 24 lost, i make that a loss rate of 3.4% agreed?

well, the lancaster, in the above time period (although her first opperational was in March '42) completed, accounting for day and night sorties, 17,100 sorties exactily, and 585 were lost, believe it or not, that comes out as 3.4% too

however i had this feeling you were going to say that's just because the lanc flew by night, so i calculated the the figures for the lancaster's daytime operations for the same period (1st jan. '42 - 30th June '43)...........

just to clarify by a daytime sortie is considdered one in which the aircraft is dispatched at returns in the same day...........

and so for this period the lanc did 382 daytime sorties for 13 aircraft lost, believe it or not but AGAIN that comes out to a loss rate of 3.4%

but as i was on a role, i thought why stop at the daytime sorties for that period? why not do the whole war?

so i did!

and i can confirm that throughout the entire war the lancaster did 40,139 daytime sorties! and only 281 were lost on these daytime raids, you know what that makes the lancaster's loss rate for daytime sorties in WWII?? 0.7% !!!!

also considder that by '42 the B-24 had several years development, the lanc was in service in it's first mark with no problems and needed no adjustments!

FLYBOYJ · 01-13-2006, 05:48 PM

LMFAO!!!!

lesofprimus · 01-13-2006, 05:57 PM

So I suppose the next line of defense is to question the validity of Lanc's statistics and truthfullness???

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-13-2006, 06:16 PM

in which case i shall show CC my source and ask him to confirm it to you all..........

Gnomey · 01-13-2006, 07:15 PM

Good stuff Lanc.

syscom3 · 01-13-2006, 07:20 PM

I will trust his figures. I find it intresting that the loss rate was equal. Next I will look at the figures for Jul 1 1943 to Dec 31 1943.

And the B24 first flew in 1940, with low rate production starting in 1941. No B24 groups were in the UK untill late 1942, and even then it was only two groups through out the first half of 1943.

Glider · 01-13-2006, 07:31 PM

Excellent posting Lanc and very interesting results.

FLYBOYJ · 01-13-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

And the B24 first flew in 1940, with low rate production starting in 1941. No B24 groups were in the UK untill late 1942, and even then it was only two groups through out the first half of 1943.

And at that point bomber command was taking the brunt of the Luftwaffe...

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-14-2006, 03:45 AM

well if they didn't arrive until late '42 why'd you make me go through the whole of '42

and i'm sorry but it may take me a while to get many figures like that again, i've got a major bit of coursework to do for the next two weeks so anytime i'm not on here i'll be doing that................

syscom3 · 01-14-2006, 12:54 PM

The reason I had you post the results of 1942 was to show that there were so few B24 sorties, there really wasnt any meaningfull comparison between the two. I think that the 2nd half of 1943 and first half of 1944 is when we can begin t make meaningfull comparisions.

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-14-2006, 01:05 PM

couldn't you've just said there was no point in making a comparios ninsted of making me do all that??

and what do you think of the lanc's use in daytime now?

Gnomey · 01-14-2006, 01:39 PM

The same as he did before...

syscom3 · 01-14-2006, 01:42 PM

I couldnt have said that without having data to presume it. I though there were far more B24 missions in the 8th than there were. One thing that struck me on the B24 missions in 1942, was even though my source said "group" sorties, in actuality, only 1/4 to 1/3 of the planes went on the mission(s).

The day loss rate was interesting. But I think we will start see a big difference in data from the last part of 1943 onwards. Once the 8th was going on regular mssions deep into Germany, the loss rates went way up.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-14-2006, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

I will continue to post things about this as its opened all sorts of variables on what made both planes so great.

Sometimes, but most of the time it leads you back to the same crap.

lancasterman · 07-02-2006, 05:46 PM

The Lancaster with the Halifax a close second

01-13-2006, 05:07 PM	#31
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	ok sys i did want you want, it took me several hours but i did it! ok so you stated over Europe the B-24 did 715 sorties from january 1st 1942 'til june 30th 1943 for 24 lost, i make that a loss rate of 3.4% agreed? well, the lancaster, in the above time period (although her first opperational was in March '42) completed, accounting for day and night sorties, 17,100 sorties exactily, and 585 were lost, believe it or not, that comes out as 3.4% too however i had this feeling you were going to say that's just because the lanc flew by night, so i calculated the the figures for the lancaster's daytime operations for the same period (1st jan. '42 - 30th June '43)........... just to clarify by a daytime sortie is considdered one in which the aircraft is dispatched at returns in the same day........... and so for this period the lanc did 382 daytime sorties for 13 aircraft lost, believe it or not but AGAIN that comes out to a loss rate of 3.4% but as i was on a role, i thought why stop at the daytime sorties for that period? why not do the whole war? so i did! and i can confirm that throughout the entire war the lancaster did 40,139 daytime sorties! and only 281 were lost on these daytime raids, you know what that makes the lancaster's loss rate for daytime sorties in WWII?? 0.7% !!!! also considder that by '42 the B-24 had several years development, the lanc was in service in it's first mark with no problems and needed no adjustments! __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

01-13-2006, 05:48 PM	#32
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,049	LMFAO!!!! __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

01-13-2006, 05:57 PM	#33
lesofprimus Minister of Whoopass Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi Posts: 17,487	So I suppose the next line of defense is to question the validity of Lanc's statistics and truthfullness??? __________________ My IL2 Video Tribute to My Grandfather: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk

01-13-2006, 06:16 PM	#34
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	in which case i shall show CC my source and ask him to confirm it to you all.......... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

01-13-2006, 07:15 PM	#35
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 15,210	Good stuff Lanc. __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

01-13-2006, 07:20 PM	#36
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,267	I will trust his figures. I find it intresting that the loss rate was equal. Next I will look at the figures for Jul 1 1943 to Dec 31 1943. And the B24 first flew in 1940, with low rate production starting in 1941. No B24 groups were in the UK untill late 1942, and even then it was only two groups through out the first half of 1943. __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

01-13-2006, 07:31 PM	#37
Glider Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London Posts: 3,647	Excellent posting Lanc and very interesting results.

01-14-2006, 03:45 AM	#39
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	well if they didn't arrive until late '42 why'd you make me go through the whole of '42 and i'm sorry but it may take me a while to get many figures like that again, i've got a major bit of coursework to do for the next two weeks so anytime i'm not on here i'll be doing that................ __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

01-14-2006, 12:54 PM	#40
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,267	The reason I had you post the results of 1942 was to show that there were so few B24 sorties, there really wasnt any meaningfull comparison between the two. I think that the 2nd half of 1943 and first half of 1944 is when we can begin t make meaningfull comparisions. __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

01-14-2006, 01:05 PM	#41
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	couldn't you've just said there was no point in making a comparios ninsted of making me do all that?? and what do you think of the lanc's use in daytime now? __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

01-14-2006, 01:39 PM	#42
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 15,210	The same as he did before... __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

01-14-2006, 01:42 PM	#43
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,267	I couldnt have said that without having data to presume it. I though there were far more B24 missions in the 8th than there were. One thing that struck me on the B24 missions in 1942, was even though my source said "group" sorties, in actuality, only 1/4 to 1/3 of the planes went on the mission(s). The day loss rate was interesting. But I think we will start see a big difference in data from the last part of 1943 onwards. Once the 8th was going on regular mssions deep into Germany, the loss rates went way up. __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

07-02-2006, 05:46 PM	#45
lancasterman Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: canada Posts: 15	The Lancaster with the Halifax a close second

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