The Best Fw-190 Variant...?

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK

You have to ask? It is in the picture oh 190D expert.

I don't claim to be a 190D "expert". Not on the bottom of the engine it's not.

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK

A radiator typically uses air to carry away the heat, while a 'heat exchanger' uses another medium. Now you can go right ahead and squirm with semantics all you want but the Jumo A Doras used a radiator to cool the engine and an heat exchanger for the oil.

And both used air to carry away the heat.

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK

Luni you were the one that claimed the oil cooler was in front. You do not remember saying this? "The oil cooler sits in front of the rest of the cooling system. I thought there was a fan behind the oil cooler but perhaps not." Oh dearie me, oldtimers you have and even in 'black and white' a couple of times so that you could refresh your memory.

I thought there was a fan behind it because of info on the Tempest cooling system. Apparently I mis-interpreted this info. However, I still see nothing that indicates the oil cooler on the Dora is not in the form of a ring behind the spinner and the annular radiators sit alongside the block.

[KraziKanuK]

Luni, for someone who has studied the Dora, you really don't have a clue what you are talking about. Yes the heat exchanger, using engine coolant to remove the heat, is attached to the bottom of the engine.

I thought there was a fan behind it because of info on the Tempest cooling system. Apparently I mis-interpreted this info. However, I still see nothing that indicates the oil cooler on the Dora is not in the form of a ring behind the spinner and the annular radiators sit alongside the block.

Are you now saying the Tempest had a cooling fan?

I suggest you get new glasses. Sit alongside the engine block? The coolant rad site in the cowling in the nose, just in front of the gear reduction casing. It is NO WHERE near the engine block!

To help you, http://www.albentley-drawings.com/fw190d.htm



Look at the engine in the bottom right corner and you wil see the heat exchanger for the oil. Notice the engine coolant line from the radiator.

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK

Luni, for someone who has studied the Dora, you really don't have a clue what you are talking about. Yes the heat exchanger, using engine coolant to remove the heat, is attached to the bottom of the engine.

Oh come on! You are being silly. You complained about my saying it was a "radiator" based cooling system, claiming it was a "heat exchanger", which was somehow different. What liquid cooled engine does not use such a system? What air-cooled engine has a radiator?

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK

Are you now saying the Tempest had a cooling fan?

The Tempest II did.

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK

I suggest you get new glasses. Sit alongside the engine block? The coolant rad site in the cowling in the nose, just in front of the gear reduction casing. It is NO WHERE near the engine block!

To help you, http://www.albentley-drawings.com/fw190d.htm



Look at the engine in the bottom right corner and you wil see the heat exchanger for the oil. Notice the engine coolant line from the radiator.

Umm... that little tiny radiator is no where near large enough to cool that engine. That is the oil cooling radiator. The engine radiator has to be at least as large in volume as one, and probably both, of the Bf109 radiators, probably even larger than that. A radiator that small, no matter how efficient, cannot shed enough heat for an engine generating that much power.

[KraziKanuK]

You're just squirming because you didn't use the the correct word.

Another squirm, mentioning the Tempest II, since it is a aircooled radial, when the discussion is about the liquid cooled Dora.

Keep it up, for it shows how really clueless your are about the engine cooling systems of the Jumo powered Dora. Better do some more studying.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

you tell 'im..............

Originally Posted by RG Lunatic

I don't claim to be a 190D "expert".

we all know that's not true.............

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Wow this convo is really getting interesting. I am going to start selling tickets.

[mosquitoman]

Can I buy one?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Sure for a hundred dollars.

[mosquitoman]

20p maybe

[CharlesBronson]

One of the most sucessful operations carried out by the FW-190 was the operation "donnerkeil" ( thunderbolt) wich was tha air cover for the channel dash, made by the biggest german Battlecruisers.

The action took place in 12th february 1942.

By midnight the Gneisenau and the Prinz Eugen had reached the Elbe River and sanctuary; the Scharnhorst followed at 1030 the next morning. No British shell, bomb, or torpedo had touched a German ship.

The British lost seventeen fighters, twenty RAF bombers, and the six Fleet Air Arm Swordfish. Seven fighters were lost or written off from the three Jagdgeschwader engaged; the only pilots lost were four from JG 26. Operationally, the German victory had been complete, and the damage to British prestige, incalculable. After the war, Adolf Galland called the operation the "greatest hour" of his career.



Focke-Wulf Fw 190 A-2 Stab, Jagdgeschwader 26 Coquelles, France February 1942.

There is no question the British goofed the channel dash intercept. They ignored the intial contact reports because they didn't believe it was happening.

But also you must admit the German's had many advantages. The weather provided fog for cover for a good part of the "dash", and the German fighter cover for all but a small part of the dash (as they passed by Calaise) had a much shorter range to fly.

=S=

Lunatic

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by RG_Lunatic

There is no question the British goofed the channel dash intercept. They ignored the intial contact reports because they didn't believe it was happening.

But also you must admit the German's had many advantages. The weather provided fog for cover for a good part of the "dash", and the German fighter cover for all but a small part of the dash (as they passed by Calaise) had a much shorter range to fly.

=S=

Lunatic

That still makes it a success.

[evangilder]

Agreed Adler. The US made a butt-load of mistakes wrt Pearl Harbor. The mini-sub was sunk, no one thought too much about it. The flight was picked up on radar. No one thought much about it, mis-interpreting it to be an expected flight of B-17s. Does that mean that Pearl Harbor was not a success for the Japanese? Not in my book.

In war, things get misinterpreted, misjudged and generally FUBAR'd. Sometimes superior tactics win the battle, sometimes it is taking advantage of someone else's screw-up, sometimes it is just dumb luck. Victory is victory, no matter how it happens. On that day, the Germans got a victory, no matter what the particulars are.

To quote Sean Connery "Losers always whine about their best, but the winner goes home and ****s the prom queen."

[CharlesBronson]

More information about " Donnerkeil".

JG-26 claims. 12/2/42

[CharlesBronson]

Other defensive battle well made by the FW was the air attack against the Dieppe raid launched by the allies in august 19 1942.

The Fw-190 was mostly A-2/A-3. In those days with the exception of a handful of pressurizated Bf-109G-1 from Höhe ( high altitude)staffels the JG-2 and JG-26 was completely equipped with the Tanks design.

Focke-Wulf Fw 190 A-3
Stab, III Gruppe, Jagdgeschwader 2
Morlaix, France


For the support of operation "Jubilee" Allies tand could rely on around-the-clock assistance from RAF Spitfires, Hurricanes, Typhoons and Mustangs. 48 squadrons of Spitfires took part, including 42 equipped with Spitfire Vs, two with Spitfire VIs, and four with Spitfire IXs.[1] Support for the mostly Canadian landing force was also provided by R.A.F. bomber units, along with the Spitfires of the American 31st FG and the B-17s of the 97th BG. However, Allied numerical superiority and the intruduction of these new fighters( Mustang, TyphoonIb and Spit Mk-IX) did not prove enough to secure the skies over Dieppe on 19 August 1942.

North American Mustang Mk. I
613 Squadron, Royal Air Force
Twinwood Farm, Berdfordshire, august 1942



Hawker Typhoon Mk.IB R7679
No.56 Sqn RAF



The aerial battles fought over Dieppe demonstrated the potency of the Focke-Wulf 190 as a fighter and fighter-bomber.

The pilots of J.G. 2 and J.G. 26 had to respond quickly to a surprise enemy landing supported by a strong air element, and judging from victory and loss records, they did sweeped most of his oposition.

J.G. 2 lost eight pilots killed or missing, and six pilots wounded, and in return the Geschwader claimed destruction of 67 enemy aircraft. J.G. 26 lost six pilots killed or missing, and claimed a total of 38 enemy aircraft destroyed.

I am scanning some more info, I will post it later.

All color profiles from.
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org