The Best Fw-190 Variant...?

[the lancaster kicks ass]

there was a G??

[cheddar cheese]

Long range ground attack, I think. I think there was also a B and a C but im not sure on that, or what they were supposed to do.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i've heard of the C............

[reddragon]

Well, I'll go with the 190D-12 with the Junkers Jumo 213 engine, then, although I still prefer the Ta 152.

[Erich]

no D-12's operational myabe you mean a D-11 or a D-13 ?

my vote for Sturmbock A-8/R8

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Dont take me wrong, I think the A looked great but the Dora was just beautiful. And yes the Dora was a better aircraft too. As Erich said they were used for 2 different roles also, but the Dora was the better all around aircraft and yes Lanc looked better!

The Dora9 was faster, but I think the A6 was the best turning of the 190's. The A's also rolled better than the Dora or TA.

As for looks, that's just a matter of personal taste. I have a model of a 190A4 that I think looks awsome

=S=

Lunatic

[Nonskimmer]

Originally Posted by RG_Lunatic

As for looks, that's just a matter of personal taste. I have a model of a 190A4 that I think looks awsome

=S=

Lunatic

For the second time today, I quite agree with RG!

Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

For the second time today, I quite agree with RG!

It's painted (as close as I could get) in a pattern they used to hide them under trees, a skyblue cover coat with a forest green pattern on top.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by RG_Lunatic

The Dora9 was faster, but I think the A6 was the best turning of the 190's. The A's also rolled better than the Dora or TA.

As for looks, that's just a matter of personal taste. I have a model of a 190A4 that I think looks awsome

=S=

Lunatic

RG, the "Dora" was the tightest turning FW-190, and this is a commonly known fact for those who have studied the plane or read detailed books about it.

Originally Posted by Soren

RG, the "Dora" was the tightest turning FW-190, and this is a commonly known fact for those who have studied the plane or read detailed books about it.

Hmmm... I've never actually read that. I've read comparisons of its performance to contemporary Allied fighters, all very sketchy on actual details. But I've yet to see a single source that actually says that the Dora was able to turn tighter than the Anton. It was faster and able to pull itself through a high speed turn better, but that is a different thing.

Care to give a specific source?

=S=

Lunatic

[Udet]

To elaborate a bit further on Soren´s last comment:

I have read thoroughly on most fighters of WWII, however it was not until i had a series of informal conversations with people with vast knowledge that i got enlightened on the following -meaning what i am going to comment here is not on any book i´d put my hands on so far-:

It was Kurt Tank´s creation, the Fw 190s, beginning with the A series, followed by the D version "Long Nose", ending with the Ta152s, that made the most brilliant line of evolution observed on any fighter which saw service in world war II, of any combatant nation.

The A´s had excellent medium and low altitude performance, having a not so wonderful high altitude performance. A radial engine and powerful cannon armament were other features.

The D and the final sample of the evolution in Tanks work, the Ta 152, while not having radial engines, had superior high altitude performance, and superb low altitude performance -proved by the records of the boys of JG301, who dealt with the dreaded Yaks accordingly-.

Of all other fighters which saw service, you name them, Spitfire, Bf109, P-51, P-47, Yaks, La´s, etc., no one had such a clear ascending line on most aspects like the Fw190s gained.

Yes, most fighters became faster and heavily armed, but saw their manouvering affected to one degree or another (Spitfire, Bf109, P-47). Not the case with Kurt Tank´s work: his Fw190 chain of evolution not only became faster -faster than most enemy fighters-, they also became easier to handle for rookie pilots, extremely manouverable, in other words: they were going ahead.

It was kind of a consistent opinion to see even the latest P-47 versions of the war at serious disadvantage had the war been protracted and more 190Ds and Ta152s had become available for the jagdwaffe.

After hearing such opinions, i realized it is coherent with what i ve read.

Therefore it is impossible for me to tell which Fw190 version was better.

Like no other plane of the war, the Fw190s were simply seeing its line of evolution improving and improving, that is, rising on the chart like no other plane, friend or foe alike.

The F4U Corsair started good and got better with each evolution. So did the P-51, ending with the H model which was probably the single best high performance prop fighter developed in WWII. Likewise, the P-47 went through improvment after improvement, ending with the M and N models which were superb.

The Dora and Ta lines however, were somewhat compromized. For a variety of reasons, Tank's options were limited - he had to use the 190A as a basis of his design. This resulted in a less than optimal cooling system design for the Jumo engine.

Despite all the German hype of the Dora9, I've never seen any sign that Allied pilots were much aware of it. They had heard of the long nose FW, but that's about it. It is hard to know how competative it really was given all the late war German propoganda and Tank's self promotions.

And the idea that the Dora9 could out-turn the Anton seems outright silly. The higher weight and same wings, and the longer rear fuselage with no significant increase in elevator area implies a reduced rate of turn. It seems more likely it was able to out turn the Anton at high speeds, where the increase in leverage would be more important than the actual maximum rate of rotation about the horizontal axis.

=S=

Lunatic

[KraziKanuK]

You need to expand your reading RG.

Many Allied pilots have commented on that the only late war a/c that gave them any real trouble was the Dora. It is a wonder that any have heard of the Spit XIV since there was less than 1/2 the war time number (~750) produced than for the Dora(~1800).

What was not so optimal aboutf the Dora's coolant system?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Everything I have read confirms what Udet is saying about the evolution of the Fw-190 culminating in the Ta-152. I am not convinced that the P-51H was the greatest high alltitude aircraft produced in WW2 because it did not match up against a Ta-152H. The Dora was a magnificent aircraft and so was the Ta-152. Everything I have read about it says so and everything about the 152 leads to saying that it was the best high alltitude fighter to hit service during WW2.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

As for the G that someone asking about earlier. Here is some info on it and other varients. Most of these below never made it into production or service.

Fw 190G-0 Pre-production Jabo
Fw 190G-1 Jabo with Junkers bomb-rack
Fw 190G-1/Trop Tropicalised Jabo
Fw 190G-2 Jabo with Messerschmitt bomb-rack
Fw 190G-2/Trop Tropicalised Jabo
Fw 190G-2/N Nacht Jabo
Fw 190G-3 Jabo with Focke-Wulf bomb-rack
Fw 190G-3/Trop Tropicalised Jabo
Fw 190G-3/R5 4 Fragmentation bombs carried under wings
Fw 190G-3/N Nacht Jabo
Fw 190G-4 Jabo with 3 ETC 503 bomb-racks
Fw 190G-4/Trop Tropicalised Jabo
Fw 190G-5 Planned Jabo
Fw 190G-6 Planned Jabo
Fw 190G-7 Jabo with drop tank? (NB. All G variants had drop tanks)
Fw 190G-8 Jabo based on A-8
Fw 190G-8/R4 GM 1 nitrous-oxide power-boost system
Fw 190G-8/R5 BMW 801TU
Fw 190G-9 Planned Jabo with BMW 801F
Fw 190G-10 Planned Jabo with BMW 801F
Fw 190H-1 Proposed high-altitude fighter
Fw 190S-5 Two-seat trainer
Fw 190S-8 Two-seat trainer

FOCKE-WULF 190G
Almost concurrently with the start of production of Fw 190F close support attack version (Schlachtflugzeug), its derivative emerged from the production lines - an extended range fighter-bomber, Jabo-Rei (Jagdbomber mit vergrosserter Reichweite), designated Fw 190G. This version was an attempt to cope with the service units' need for a fighter with the capability of carrying ground attack weapons to distances considerably greater than 500-600 km (the range of a Fw 190F).

FOCKE-WULF 190G-1
During the development of this new version, elements of the Fw 190A-4/U8 long range fighter-bomber were used, in which range extension was obtained by use of two dropable underwing fuel tanks of 300 liters capacity each. These tanks were carried on VTr-Ju87 pylons produced by the Weserflug company, with duralumin profiled fairings. However, the increase in fuel weight to 880 kg could considerably reduce aircraft performance and extend takeoff length to the point of reducing the operational ability of the plane from smaller airfields. It was necessary to reduce plane weight.
This could be realized by the reduction of plane armor or armament. The designers applied the second solution and removed the fuselage mounted MG 17 7.9 mm machine guns and resisted applying a second pair of cannons in the wings. This new Fw 190G-1 had armament reduced to only two MG 151/20 E 20 mm cannons mounted in the wing roots with a reduced 150 rounds per cannon ammunition.

For offensive armament the under-fuselage ETC 501 bomb rack could carry 250 and 500 kg bombs or four small 50 kg bombs after the ER 4 adapter applied. The radio equipment suite deleted the FuG 25a IFF device and often the radio altimeter was not mounted. Because of the extended engine operational time it was suggested that an additional oil tank be mounted under the cowling, near the windshield, in the place of the previously used MG 17 machine guns. About 50 Fw 190A-4/U8 planes were produced that were included in the G series and got the official designation Fw 190G-1. During production, the shields of the underwing munitions locks were slightly enlarged and stiffened.

FOCKE-WULF 190G-2
The new Fw 190G-2 model was developed from the A-5 series fuselage and its fighter-bomber U8 modification kit (A-5/U. It had the same modifications as used in the A-4/U8 plane. Additional fuel (468 kg) was placed in underwing fuel tanks but (except for a few early specimens) carried under the wings on simpler V.Mtt-Schlos locks, with two side struts - stabilizers. Duralumin profiled firings were not used in this plane, because despite its good aerodynamics during the flight to the target, when tanks were mounted, after tank ejection the fairing's influence was highly disruptive - aerodynamical drag was increased, fuel consumption increased and maximum speed was reduced by 40 km/hr. Locks without fairings were beneficial in both flight phases and after tank ejection small locks reduced the speed by only 15 km/hr. As in the Fw 190G-1, some planes got an additional oil tank. There were also some planes adapted for night operations designated Fw 190G-2/N. The main difference was application of flame dampers to protect the pilot from blinding and to reduce the possibility of early detection of the plane by enemy antiaircraft defence. A smaller change worth a word is the application of landing lights to the left wing leading edge (in all planes).
FOCKE-WULF 190G-3
During the summer of 1943 production of modified Fw 190G-3 planes started. In this series the wing from the Fw 190 A-6 plane was applied as standard and underwing shackles for fuel tanks were replaced by similar ETC 501 V.Fw Trg (Verkleideter Focke-Wulf Trager) bomb racks. This solution gives this version the ability to carry both fuel tanks and 250 kg bombs, this considerably increased offensive plane capabilities. In addition to this change, the Fw 190G-3 plane was equipped with the autopilot device PKS 11 (also the more modern version: PKS 12) to reduce pilot work load during long range flights (maximum flight time for Fw 190G was about 2.5 hours). Beginning in October 1943 Fw 190G-3 and later version planes were powered by the BMW 801 D-2 engine adapted for C3 (96 octane) fuel and fitted with an additional injector in the left supercharger inlet. That made it possible to briefly (10-15 min.) increase engine power during flights at low altitudes (under 1000 m).
The Fw 190G-3 had also a desert version, G-3 tp, with anti-dust filters and other equipment useful during operations over desert regions or over regions with similar conditions. Some planes were modified by mounting equipment provided for R kits used for G version:

Fw 190G-3/R1 - heavily armed attack fighter with two WB 151/20 pylons in place of underwing V.Fw Trg. racks. This variant had armament of 2x1 MG 151/20 E with 250 rounds per cannon and 2x2 MG 151/20 E with 125 rounds per cannon. This modernization was ordered in September 1943 to be made by LZA workshops at Sagan-Kupper Air Base. These planes did not have the autopilot device or additional armor. Planes would have been used for bomber formation attack and ground attack.

Fw 190G-3/R5 - close support attack aircraft modified similar to the F-3/R1 standard. In place of V.Fw Trg. racks, ETC 50 bomb racks (2x2 50 kg bombs) were mounted. In this modification, no additional armor and oil tank were applied. Some planes were again equipped with fuselage mounted MG 17 machine guns. Most of the planes had the autopilot device.

FOCKE-WULF 190G-8
Next, and the last production series of the G version, was the Fw 190G-8 plane (G-4 to G-7 variant designated small modifications that were not realized). Basis for this version was the A-8 airframe. It included all modification applied to this version and the enlarged cockpit canopy from the Fw 190F-8. Some G-8 planes also got flame dampers (version G-8/N adapted for night operation). Despite the fact that the plane did not have fuselage mounted machine guns, the G-8 got new, enlarged upper covers forward of the cockpit, adapted for MG 131 machine gun mounting. For transportation of additional fuel tanks and bombs the new ETC 503 bomb racks were used. To widen Fw 190G-8 operational use, the following Rustsatz kits were provided:
Fw 190G-8/R4 - an unrealized project of a plane equipped with a GM 1 installation for nitrogen monoxide (N2O) injection for increased power rising (larger amount of oxygen available for combustion) at high altitudes.

Fw 190G-8/R5 - had four underwing ETC 50 (or ETC 70) bomb racks in place of two ETC 503.

Production of G-8 version continued from September 1943 to February 1944, when production of the Fw 190G-8 was abandoned in favor of modified F-8 series planes. This was connected with the tendency to simplify the production process. In the late series G-8 planes (from February 1944), the autopilot device was not used . In the late Fw 190G-8 (after mounting MG 131 machine guns) there were no longer differences between this version and the Fw 190F-8 attack aircraft type (G-8 = F-8/U1 in the version with ETC 503 bomb racks, and G-8/R5 = F-8/R1 also).

In an emergency, single Fw 190G planes were adapted for the transportation of high weight bombs under the fuselage (1000, 1600 and 1800 kg). In this modification, the shock absorber leg was strengthened and wheels with strengthened tires were used. Also used were special bomb racks (Schlos 1000 or 2000) in place of the ETC 501 bomb rack. The Fw 190G planes with these higher bomb loads needed as long as 1200-1300 m of runway for takeoff.

About 800 Fw 190G planes of all versions were produced. It was also the last version of the Fw 190 powered by a radial engine. We must also admit that finding the true number of planes produced is impossible for the following reasons: first - full documentation is not in existence from all Focke-Wulf airframe factories and companies manufacturing the plane under licence, second - we don't know how many airframes (particularly F series) were assembled in special small workshops (e.g. Menibum), whose main aim was building of torpedo and other variants for special purposes. The other complicating factor, sometimes making detailed compilation impossible is that some planes were assembled in field workshops where airframes and engines from planes withdrawn from service units were recycled. In this process, fully operational planes were made from parts of heavily damaged fighters withdrawn from service. For example, from a plane with a heavily damaged airframe, wings were taken and mounted to another plane with damaged wings. Often such 'composited' planes had tail and engine taken from other Fw 190A, F or G. These composite planes, sometimes a completely new 'version', received new individual serial numbers and were sent to a field unit after a test flight .

Example of this practice is seen in a Fw 190F-8/R-1 plane stored in the National Air and Space Museum (NASM) in Washington, USA. When, after storage in the Silver Hill facility, the process of restoration started, the old identification plate on the fuselage with serial number (Werk Nummer) W.Nr. 640069 was found. This is evidence that the airframe was taken from an A-7 plane. After rebuilding during the war, this particular plane was modified to Fw 190F-8 standard, got a new serial number (W.Nr. 931884) and was again sent to a service unit. The number of Fw 190Fighters produced with radial engines is probably 17000 planes minimum. Some authors quote higher numbers, but because each source is different, these numbers are not credible. Of course, the development of the Fw 190 plane did not end with the A, F and G versions, but continued with water-cooled in-line engines.
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevo...her/fw190.html