Which was the best night fighter? - Page 8 - Aircraft of World War II

brickhistory · 06-23-2007, 10:53 PM

Erich,

It's interesting seeing different perspectives regarding the P-61. As your interviews with 425th and, I believe, 422d NFS crews shows, they were less than enamored with its performance.

My interviews with 417th NFS guys showed they REALLY liked the Widow.

I wonder if the difference in views was either experience levels - 422/425 were new units introduced directly into the 'big leagues' vs the 414-417th guys who flew the Beau for 18 months or so in North Africa and Med theatres and had a chance to gain experience. This includes the crew chiefs and other ground trades as well as the radar technicians.

Thoughts?

Erich · 06-23-2007, 11:12 PM

I think in this case Brick the ETO 422/425th had only the P-61 and nothing else to compare, as to MTO units they had Mossies and the Beau, so it could just be simply in their minds................the Widow rules ? !

blu3y4 · 06-24-2007, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

The P-61 was a very advanced aircraft for its day and featured many things considered state of the art. Even in service many times the turrets were removed to save weight and in essence just weren't needed. With that said any new aircraft especially one featuring new and innovative features will have problems and continual design changes are a continual event in production aircraft.

In the end the "Black Widow" name of the P-61 wasn't given to it because operational issues.

thankyou

brickhistory · 06-24-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

I think in this case Brick the ETO 422/425th had only the P-61 and nothing else to compare, as to MTO units they had Mossies and the Beau, so it could just be simply in their minds................the Widow rules ? !

Yep.

I'm thinking that by the time the 12AF units finally got US equipment and there was support - parts, etc - for said equipment, they were just relieved to not be orphans anymore........

syscom3 · 06-24-2007, 11:30 AM

In the PTO, the P61 was used effectively, and generally the crews like the plane.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 06-24-2007, 12:18 PM

Best in my opinion are the Mossie NF.30 and then the Ju-88G.

Both served for all or most of the war and served with great distinction and many other capacities as well.

Both were used effectively, and the crews did like the planes

.

CharlesBronson · 06-24-2007, 04:26 PM

Heinkel He-219 by far, radar, range, speed, firepower, ejectable seats.

One pre-series aircraft shoot down 5 enemy bombers in his first sortie

syscom3 · 06-24-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesBronson

Heinkel He-219 by far, radar, range, speed, firepower, ejectable seats.

One pre-series aircraft shoot down 5 enemy bombers in his first sortie

How can spiral painted prop spinners spoil the aim of a bomber gunner when the fighter is flying at night and couldn't be seen clearly anyway?

Erich · 06-24-2007, 05:43 PM

CB the He 219 was trouble from the start clear to it's demise, the Ju 88G-6 was superior in almost every way, the arms though the heaviest of any German nf was reduced to 4 2cm weapons by NJG 1 crews in I. and II. gruppe. Ejection
seats did not operate half the time thus the two crewmen were sent into oblivion and glass with broken necks and on it went, most a/c did not have rear warning radar and were Mossie fodder. I won;t alk about the enignes or other bulky matters but I have listed most in other threads on this bird

lesofprimus · 06-24-2007, 07:43 PM

The Uhu is the choice of the mis-informed everyone... If u think it was the best, go read up on it and educate urself... We have been over this time and time and time again....

As Erich stated, the Ju 88 was the Germans unequivocal Nf....

brickhistory · 06-24-2007, 08:31 PM

And now for something completely different....................

During my US Beau research, I came across many listings in the squadron's histories for UFOs, dubbed 'foo fighters.' Other Allied aircrew also saw weird/goofy things over Europe and most were thrown in the foo fighter category.

Does anyone know of German reports of the topic? A search here didn't get any hits.

(No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Just interested in how two sides might differently interpret the same thing.)

syscom3 · 06-24-2007, 09:01 PM

More than a few B29 crews flying night missions over Japan reported strange things falling under the "foo fighter" category.

CharlesBronson · 06-25-2007, 10:55 AM

Ju-88g is too slow for my taste but...wathever.

And yes I need to read more.

Erich · 06-25-2007, 12:33 PM

slow ....... ? not with the MW 50 injection it wasn't

CharlesBronson · 06-25-2007, 08:51 PM

Oh just a sprint, What was the max speed with that ?

06-24-2007, 11:30 AM	#110
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,277	In the PTO, the P61 was used effectively, and generally the crews like the plane. __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

06-24-2007, 12:18 PM	#111
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,150	Best in my opinion are the Mossie NF.30 and then the Ju-88G. Both served for all or most of the war and served with great distinction and many other capacities as well. Both were used effectively, and the crews did like the planes . __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

06-24-2007, 04:26 PM	#112
CharlesBronson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 2,999	Heinkel He-219 by far, radar, range, speed, firepower, ejectable seats. One pre-series aircraft shoot down 5 enemy bombers in his first sortie __________________ Bronsons´s videos

06-24-2007, 07:43 PM	#115
lesofprimus Minister of Whoopass Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi Posts: 17,490	The Uhu is the choice of the mis-informed everyone... If u think it was the best, go read up on it and educate urself... We have been over this time and time and time again.... As Erich stated, the Ju 88 was the Germans unequivocal Nf.... __________________ My IL2 Video Tribute to My Grandfather: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk

06-24-2007, 09:01 PM	#117
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,277	More than a few B29 crews flying night missions over Japan reported strange things falling under the "foo fighter" category. __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

06-23-2007, 10:53 PM	#106
brickhistory Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 91	Erich, It's interesting seeing different perspectives regarding the P-61. As your interviews with 425th and, I believe, 422d NFS crews shows, they were less than enamored with its performance. My interviews with 417th NFS guys showed they REALLY liked the Widow. I wonder if the difference in views was either experience levels - 422/425 were new units introduced directly into the 'big leagues' vs the 414-417th guys who flew the Beau for 18 months or so in North Africa and Med theatres and had a chance to gain experience. This includes the crew chiefs and other ground trades as well as the radar technicians. Thoughts?

06-23-2007, 11:12 PM	#107
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,770	I think in this case Brick the ETO 422/425th had only the P-61 and nothing else to compare, as to MTO units they had Mossies and the Beau, so it could just be simply in their minds................the Widow rules ? !

06-24-2007, 05:43 PM	#114
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,770	CB the He 219 was trouble from the start clear to it's demise, the Ju 88G-6 was superior in almost every way, the arms though the heaviest of any German nf was reduced to 4 2cm weapons by NJG 1 crews in I. and II. gruppe. Ejection seats did not operate half the time thus the two crewmen were sent into oblivion and glass with broken necks and on it went, most a/c did not have rear warning radar and were Mossie fodder. I won;t alk about the enignes or other bulky matters but I have listed most in other threads on this bird

06-24-2007, 08:31 PM	#116
brickhistory Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 91	And now for something completely different.................... During my US Beau research, I came across many listings in the squadron's histories for UFOs, dubbed 'foo fighters.' Other Allied aircrew also saw weird/goofy things over Europe and most were thrown in the foo fighter category. Does anyone know of German reports of the topic? A search here didn't get any hits. (No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Just interested in how two sides might differently interpret the same thing.)

06-25-2007, 10:55 AM	#118
CharlesBronson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 2,999	Ju-88g is too slow for my taste but...wathever. And yes I need to read more. __________________ Bronsons´s videos

06-25-2007, 12:33 PM	#119
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,770	slow ....... ? not with the MW 50 injection it wasn't

06-25-2007, 08:51 PM	#120
CharlesBronson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 2,999	Oh just a sprint, What was the max speed with that ? __________________ Bronsons´s videos

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