Best Nightfighter of WW2 (Continued)

the lancaster kicks ass · 03-10-2005, 03:06 PM

and beyond.............

cheddar cheese · 03-10-2005, 03:18 PM

Yes, but where are they all now!

Ill tell you where, theyre part of the wood chipping we use on our flowerbeds.

Erich · 03-10-2005, 03:24 PM

David what is your source(s) that say the He 219 was a good nf ? only 12 Mossie kills does not say much. the engines were not in good shape and failed many times on combat ops. Did not have the range for ops that everyone envisioned at first. The armament though powerful was too much and many A-0's and A-2's had two of the ventral cannon removed. The ejection seats did not always work properly and actually ejected both crewmen through the canopy several times killing them. No rarward radar on 9/1-th sof the A-0's and A-2's used on operations and the bird was easy prey for the Mossie Night fighter. The a/c was also prone to broken backs while on landing, rason for NJGr 10 and their tests to leave the two birds broken on the decaying tarmac while they used Ju 88G-6's in 1944-45.

My sources are documentation from I./NJG 1, 3./NJGr 10, NJG 5, Nachtjagdstaffel Norwegen.

Although in the testing stages, the A-5 and A-7 did not appear to the front line unit I./NJG 1 as thought. The anti-Mossie A-6 stripped of all armor never got off the ground and was neither used on operations, in fact it never got to the service unit destined for the a/c.

The P-51A nd B were too heavy for the ETO and although kills were made esepcially by the US 422nd nfs many German bombers and Night fighters elluded the Black Widow. Tthree Widows were shot down by return fire from a He 177 and JU 87D-5's on three different missions....

E

DAVIDICUS · 03-10-2005, 04:08 PM

Erich:

Type in "He-219" into your search engine and you will retrieve a wealth of web sites with information singing the praises of the He-219 as a night fighter. I have not seen any disparaging information with the exception of what knowledgeable people (like yourself) are saying.

I will defer to your assertions here as I am not very knowledgeable concerning the He-219 or really any of the night fighters for that matter.

On another note, I believe you meant P-61 as opposed to P-51.

Erich · 03-10-2005, 04:30 PM

I'll punch in He 219 and I am sure it is old news. yes correct P-61 not P-51. my poor hands.............

Erich · 03-10-2005, 04:39 PM

good grief I just did a quick search on over 30 sites. There wer no A-5's or A-7's. NJG 3 were to recevie A-5's and they were given to the unit and left there on the tarmac, and the NJG did not use them preferring the Ju 88G-6. Again only I./NJG 1 operated the Uhu, and the word potential used on several sites is appra-po. It is a huge what if if the a/c was upstaged with more depenedable engines. I have the losses for I./NJG 1 and no others besides the A-0 and A-2 exist on the documents. AGain applicable to the net old research from back in the 19060's and 1970's using William Greens book as the standard reference. The Smithosonian bird which has had it's fusleage painted in the underside black Schlacht scheme is an A-2 bird with two 2cm's in the wing roots, two 2cm's in the ventral tray and two 3cm's in the Schragwaffen installation.

Erich ~

DAVIDICUS · 03-10-2005, 05:43 PM

The following is basically par for the course regarding most of the information out there that I have seen.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...337/He-219.htm

KraziKanuK · 03-10-2005, 05:48 PM

Erich, even the site in the previous post quotes the top speed of 416mph for the castrated 219.

Erich · 03-10-2005, 05:50 PM

David it was not the king of the night and as I said all the prodution figures for the A-5 upward were just plans that never took off on operations or ground depending how you look at it. Only in the last 10 years was I aware of this as I had studied or so I thought every conceiveable piece of evidence and book publicized until I received official German documentation from Germany on the a/c and the unit it was involved with

E

DAVIDICUS · 03-10-2005, 07:44 PM

I understand. I just gave an example of what the information prevalent on the web says.

MP-Willow · 03-11-2005, 01:49 PM

AS for the thoughts that the Me 110G and Ju-88 and Mossie were good for the night, whey were but they started from proven irframes.

The He-219 and P-61 were from the start to be night fighters. The P-61C would have and did correct a lot of the problums and if jets had not upstaged props it was ready and able to cleanse the night.

Eric, was the He-219A-5 used in combat at all? Or as you have posted just delivered but left sitting?

KraziKanuK · 03-11-2005, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP-Willow

AS for the thoughts that the Me 110G and Ju-88 and Mossie were good for the night, whey were but they started from proven irframes.

I think you are saying the Mossie was a proven airframe.

The first NF was W4052. The prototype Mossie was W4050.

http://www.dehavilland.ukf.net/_DH98%20prodn%20list.txt

mosquitoman · 03-11-2005, 08:21 PM

The first NF variant was the mkII, the mkI was only used for recce

Erich · 03-11-2005, 09:44 PM

I do not see any references to losses and even the I./NJG 1 Uhu's lost in March 45 were A-2's

MP-Willow · 03-14-2005, 03:40 PM

Thanks all

Yes the Mossie had more time in battle to evolve. The P-61 I think could have been that good, and did show a lot of promise in the Pacific.