Best Piston Engined Fighter Ever

[Soren]

I think the +770 km/h Dora-12 needs to be mentioned as-well, it is after-all the fastest of them all..

[lesofprimus]

I thought of mentioning it Soren, but the Tank was a better performer than the Dora, so its kinda moot...

[davparlr]

Originally Posted by Soren

Davparlr,

Just a very small correction, the Ta-152H's service ceiling is 15.1 km (49.5k ft) with GM-1

Data corrected!

[jpatrick62]

I can only go on WW2 aircraft, as many superprops never saw action and could not be evaluated under combat conditions. The P51H was faster than the F4U-4, on the other hand, the F4U-4 could out turn it and out climb it as well. I think the dash 4 was a tougher customer to down as well. The Ta-152 was outstanding at high alts- probably the best of the bunch in this regard. The later Spit variants were also excellent, having outstanding climb qualities.

[GregP]

I'd go with the Grumman Bearcat as first with the Sea Fury as second, Spitfire 21 third, probably Tempest as fourth, FW 19D-9 as fifth.

To me, the Ta 152 is MUCH too specialized for high altitude. It would be meat on the table for any of the above at 3000m, but would certainly be in the hunt at 10000m.

[renrich]

The F8F would be hard to handle in a dogfight at low altitudes by any other piston engined fighters and some of the early jets. However, the best performing Bearcat at low altitude, the F8F-1 was somewhat of a dog at high altitudes and the better high altitude performer F8F-2 had somewhat lower overall performance than the 1. Also the Bearcat couldn't carry much of a load ( that is the reason they weren't used in Korea) and they were not as robust as as the typical Grumman aircraft. The brakes were so weak that you did not know if you could get full power until you actually started to take off. Its limit load was 8Gs. The early Bearcats had breakaway wing tips which was supposed to make it a 12G aircraft but that feature was removed. I would stick with the F4U-5 as the all around best piston engined fighter.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

We all know the Ta-152 was better suited for high alltitudes but the same can be said for other aircraft.

The aircraft that would have the advantage over the Ta-152 at lower alltitudes would be at the disadvantage at higher alltitudes.

All aircraft have there optimum performance at certian environmental areas.

[Erich]

ya might want to hold onto your britches as the TA was also a hot ticket at mid-altitude. Hoping Adler can get in touch with Willi but from the accts of other JG 301 pilots that flew the bird at mid range, well let's just say ........ watch out !

[Soren]

Agreed Erich.

According to the pilots who flew it the Ta-152H was a hot ticket at any altitude, its climb rate and turn rate being especially amazing at low alt, however speed was perhaps lacking just abit at SL (Not that the pilots complained) - but 595 km/h aint bad.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap we will see. That is one of the questions in the letter was how the aircraft handled at mid and low alltitudes and how they compared to allied aircraft at those alltitudes based off of his real life experiences.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

I thought of mentioning it Soren, but the Tank was a better performer than the Dora, so its kinda moot...

Well that is debatable, but I tend to agree

The D-12 would nonetheless prove a true menace at high alt, and low alt performance was still great with 607 km/h at SL and a soaring climb rate - would definitely outperform any P-51.

[GregP]

The F8F was not a "probable," it was and is the finest piston air-to-air fighter mount I can think of. It easily takes a P-51, even an H model, on maneuverability, agility, firepower, rate of climb, and rate of turn. The only place where the P-51H is better is top speed, and that erodes in any sort of a climb, which is right where the F8F would go.

The Ta-152H was a great high altitude fighter as ably stated above, but was not a low-to-medium altitude mount at all.

Just my opinion.

[Erich]

as I pointed out you will need to hear the stories of the Ta 152H pilots themselves.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The letter was sent out today, we will see what Reschke has to say about the Ta-152.

[Civettone]

I'm with GregP on this one. Although I absolutely love the Ta 152H it cannot be cold the best because it was only the best at very high altitudes. Just compare it with the Ta 152C.
I don't care if it's the best at 12,000 m altitude. I'd rather have the best piston engined fighter at 1,200 m back in 1945. I know the Ta 152H could hold its own at low level - I remember reading the story of Reschke outmanoeuvring a Tempest at treetop level (in Manfred Griehl's Luftwaffe 1945 book), but it simply wasn't fast enough at low altitude. I also have doubts concerning its roll rate...

As to my personal opinion of the best piston engined fighter of WW2, it first of all depends on the meaning of 'best fighter'. I interpret it as a pure fighter so FB abilities don't matter. I also take into account the manhours to build it but also reliability, easy handling, carrier capable. Because it has to be the best of the whole of WW2 and fighters of 1945 are generally better than those of 1940, it has to be one that was already in service during the first part of the war. All this brings it down to just two aircraft, the Bf 109 and the Spitfire.
The latter was equal to the Bf 109E in 1940, slightly inferior to the Bf 109F-4 but in 1942 the Spitfire IX took a noselength. The Bf 109 hardly evolved from the F-4 of 1941 to the G-6 of 1944 when the AS and AM engines were installed. By that time the British had the far superior Spitfire XIV which could only be rivalled by the K-4 at the end of that year. But then the Spitfire F.21 was already in production.
P-51 would be a nice third...

Kris