Best possible fighter

[plan_D]

Only the MiG-3 was capable of high altitude combat in the VVS. The Spitfire IX was superior to any variant of the MiG-3.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

alder, look into the combat achievements of the plane, apart from herald the creation of new high altitude spitfires, what did the -86 do that made it not useless in combat??

I think the plane is crap too, dont take me wrong Lanc but it could still drop bombs and act as a recon aircraft in some areas. The Swordfish was completly obsolete and outclassed and out performed by anything in the sky but was it useless? No.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

no it wasn't useless because it actually achieved something, the -86 didn't really which is why i made my original comment.........

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

In that case I will agree with you.

[P38 Pilot]

Guys im having a tough discision about what was the better fighter: P51D Mustang or German ME262.

P51 had better turning and movement
Me262 was faster
P51 packed .50 cal
Me262 was packing six guns(i cant remember what model gun though!)

So what do u think was better?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That is a tough one.

If you want to go by reliability then I would say the P-51 because its engine lasted more then 10 hours.

It also depends on what role you are using it for.

Dog fighting or defending bombers (ie. what it was mostley used for as an escort fighter) the P-51D was better. It had farther range and better maneuaverability.

If you are talking about Intercepting such as bomber formations or as a fighter bomber then I would have to say the Me-262. It was faster and had better armament.

The Me-262 was a more advanced aircraft and the most advanced aircraft to see combat by the end of WW2 but it was not very reliable.

I dont think you can compare the two and decide which one was better because of the fact that they were two different kinds of fighters and each was better then the other in its intended role.

[plan_D]

The P-51 carried six M2 Browning .50cal. The Me-262 carried four MK103 30 mm cannon, I've seen them with only two 30 mm.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I have only seen them with 4 before but then again I have only actually seen 3 Me-262's before. As all aircraft they came in a variety of weapon systems.

Some Me-262 weapons variations (I am not 100% sure these are correct for these varients though):

Me 262A-1a:
Four 30mm MK 108 cannon in nose
-Two with 100 rounds each, two with 80
Me 262A-1a/U1:
-Two 30mm MK 103
-Two MK 108
-Two 20mm MG 151/20

Me 262A-1b:
As A-1a plus 24 spin-stabilised R4/M 55mm rockets

Me 262A-2a:
As A-1a plus bomb load of two 500kg bombs

Me 262B-1a:
As A-1a

Me 262B-2a:
As A-1A plus two inclined MK 108 behind the cockpit in Schrage Musik installation
(D) SG 500 Jagdfaust with 12 rifled mortar barrels inclined in nose
(E) 50mm MK 114 gun or 48 R4/M rockets

[plan_D]

It's not well known but I have a picture in Bill Gunston's Classic Fighters with a Me-262 with only two cannons in the nose.

The caption reads: Messerschmitt AG took this photograph of an A-1a with only the outer pair of 30 mm guns. Apparently Werk-Nr 170 056, it is not an A-1a/U3 reconnaissance model, which often had no guns at all, nor does it have bomb racks. Several pure fighter versions serving with KG {J} 54 and Jv-44 in 1945 had only two guns.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It would not surprise me but I wonder why since removing those 2 guns would not alter the performance any bit.

[plan_D]

Decreased weight, increased speed and climb I suppose. And 30 mm cannons is a bit of an over-kill if they're fighting fighters too.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but i'd have thought they'd keep the inside ones, given they have more ammo........

[cheddar cheese]

Maybe the space created by removing the other two gave room for more ammo for the remaining guns.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Maybe I dont know.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

man with that lack of grammar that post's rather ammusing......