Best Tank Killer of WW2 continued

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

erich has let on that there were some Me-262's running around with armor piercing R4M's knocking tanks out left and right, although I myself have not been able to confirm this...

I have heard this also, but know nothing about it myself.

[Erich]

its very brief and included in manfred boehmes fantastic JG 7 book, although when he first wrote the book in german he has since found a tone of new info on the lat two months of the jet geschwader.

slight change, these chaps are reputed to have flown the ju 87g-1 and socred these kills although rudels kills for fact at least some were with earlier ju 87 variants. ok guys time to do some research on these varied chaps like units and maybe a scanned pic or two eh ? sorry my hands are totast today so no caps for me now .........

Hans-Ulrich Rudel: 516
Jakob Jenster: >100
Anton Korol: 99
Max Diepold: 87
Hans Ludwig: 85
Fehdler: >=65
Josef Bluemel: 60
Andreas Kuffner: >60
Ulrich Mundt: 40

e ♪

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Rudel was deffinatly the undisputed Tank Killer of the 2nd World War. I dont think anyone can dispute that.

[Gnomey]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Rudel was deffinatly the undisputed Tank Killer of the 2nd World War. I dont think anyone can dispute that.

Very true Alder, just looking at that list shows you how many he had compared to his contempories, he also sank a couple of ships if I remember correctly, I can't remember the breakdown of the 'kills' though.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap he got ships and got some aerial kills also. Pretty amazing actually.

Rudel flew 2530 combat missions. In those combat missions he was or achieved:

Kills
518+ Tanks
700 Trucks
150+ Flak and Artillery positions
9 Fighter/Ground Attack Aircraft
Hundreds of bridges, railway lines, bunkers, etc.
Battleship October Revolution, Cruiser Marat, and 70 landing craft

He was however:

Shot down 32 times.
Innumerable aircraft brought back to base that were later written off, due to heavy combat damage.
Wounded on many occasions, including the partial amputation of his right leg in the Spring of 45, after which he continued to fly with a prosthetic limb.

He recieved the following awards and decorations:

Knights Cross - 15 Jan 1942

Oakleaves - 14 Apr 1943

Oakleaves and Swords - 25 Nov 1943

Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds - 29 Mar 1944

Golden Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds - 01 Jan 1945

[Gnomey]

An amazing man, remarkable at his job.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Agreed

[Tommy Enfield]

[I do not know how much armor the Hs129 had to protect the engines; what I know is the cockpit was a an actual armored box and that the Shturmovik carried about 90 kilograms more of armor]

The problem was not the amount of armor the Hs-129 had protecting its engines, the engines themselves were the problem. Another factor to keep in mind is the numbers, the Hs-129 could not, and should not be compared with the Il-2, just because the german plane was not to see too much action, indeed. By contrast, the Il-2 and its more advanced development the Il-10, served for the duration of the War, so even though the Soviets could be inflating the achievements of these two designs, there are good signs of the true performance of the soviet plane against armored targets, and if the germans called them Black Death or not is irrelevant. They (the german ground forces) were under constant attack so the warning call Achtung Jabos!! was commonplace during the big offensives of 1943-45, so I guess, they had a reasonable respect for the Russian attack planes.


The Hs-129 is an appealing plane indeed, and all of us are aware of its feats in July 1943, during the German offensive against the Kursk salient, but there were simply not enough of them.

I'd go for the rocket-armed Typhoon anyways

[Tommy Enfield]

I guess the battleship sunk by Rudel was the Marat, and two others, a cruiser and a destroyer if my memory servs me properly

[Erich]

rocket firing typhoons ? better go back and look through some old threads here Tommy as I posted some RAF and US stats from Typhies and Jugs and the findings by Allied ground assements are pretty dismal to say the least alhtough ground claims were never adjusted by wars end. The Hs 129 with the limited numbers it had acheived mighty feats even after Kursk, as well as the Il-2 to a point. By the way the Il-2 was never called a jabo as it was not a dive bomber, this was regulated for West offensive Allied craft from what I understand only.

also of note the Murat was not sunk by Rudel only damaged and then repaired. the claims of 519 tanks...........well many know my personal thoughts on that. Rudel was the ultimate propaganda toy used to full effect to sustain the depleted moral of the Luftwaffe Schlachtgruppen in late 44-45. His victories were often the result of his other staffeln members but since his notority was such acclaimed the Third Reich needed a puppet and he was the one selected. Rudel by no means should be discounted as a flimsy pilot as he was not, excellent I would say and a key role player as SG 2 ws the hot shot Panzer killer on the Ost front followed by the killers in SG 77, 3 and others whcih had the Ju 87 G-1 and later G-2 varinats at their disposal. Sg 9 a mix with Hs 129's and Fw 190's, etc......

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Tommy Enfield

I guess the battleship sunk by Rudel was the Marat, and two others, a cruiser and a destroyer if my memory servs me properly

He sunk the battleship October Revolution. It was a Soviet Battleship.

[lesofprimus]

It was the Mara, Adler, not the October Revolution....

[KraziKanuK]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

He sunk the battleship October Revolution. It was a Soviet Battleship.

The October Revolution/Gangut was a sister, and name ship for the class, of the Marat/Petropavlovsk. The OR was broken up in 1958-59. The Marat, reverting to her original name was broken up in 1952 after being reclassified as the artillery ship Volkhov post GPW.

[Erich]

alright one of the Ju 87G chaps that poked quite a few Soviet tanks. Heres the translation from the German albeit a little screwed up due to my hands.....pic coming later.

Ulrich Mundt

Oberfeldwebel
*24.10.1915 Berlin-Lichtenberg
+29.01.1945 nerr Bütow/Pommern

RK 25.11.1944 as Oberfeldwebel after 530 combat missions

"Tex" war a passionate glider pilot and volunteered for the Luftwaffe. On 01.10.1934 he enlisted with the Heer and one year later he joined LW, where he began his pilot training on 01.04.1938 which ended on 03.09.1939 at the Stuka-Schule Kitzingen/M. Since 04.09. he was transferred to 5./StG. 1. With this unit he (as Uffz.) took part in the Polish campaign , the France campaign and the fighting at the channel (18 FF at the Channel and against England). Afterwards he was in action at the MTO(Malta) and Africa. From 22.06.1941-04.10.1943(still with 5./StG.1) he fought with great success on the Russian front in the middle and southern area against tanks, troop concentrations, gun emplacements, traffic lines and so on.

05.10.-30.11.1943 he flew 55 combat missions with 10.(Pz.)/SG 77, in Ju 87G-1's. Then until 27.06.1944 he was teacher of the "flying tank hunters" of the 4.(Pz.)/SG 152 and 5. and 6./SG 151. From 27.06.1944 until his death he was with 10.(Pz.)SG 1(later with effect from 03.01.1945 2.(Pz.)/SG 9) again at the Ostfront. He was shot down by Flak but shortly after convalescence he was in combat again. On 29.01.1945 on a transfer flight with his Ju 87 G-1 he encountered bad weather south of Bütow (Pommern) and had to force land his bird. When his plane ditched it rolled over and he was killed. He Bordfunker and another passenger were rescued but with with injuries. He was buried at the Bütow grave yard.

537 Feindflüge (combat missions) 4 at night against Malta
40 plus tank kills, 25 bridges, one transport ship sunk near Crete, near Benghasi 1 British Cruiser damaged

E ~

[Gnomey]

Interesting stuff as usual Erich. Good post.