Best World War II Aircraft?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by SILVERFISH1992

The P-51 was not the best, it was inferior to the Ki-84 and many, many, many other planes.

You are right it was not the best, but it was one of the best planes of the WW2 and one of the best piston engined planes ever built.

Fact is fact.

You can not base the reality of an aircraft based off of a silly video game.

Originally Posted by SILVERFISH1992

Want more?

The Me-309, F8F, hawker sea furry, YP-80 and I'l be back with some more...

Forget about the 309. It was only built as prototypes...

Besides the 309 was not all it was cracked up to be. It was only about 30 mph faster than the Bf 109G but the Bf 109G could out turn the Me 309. Once armament was added, the 309 became too slow. So take that one off your list.

Forget about the Bf 109. I would say the Bf 109 and the P-51 were equal depending on the conditions. Some areas the P-51 was superior, others the Bf 109. So don't say the P-51 was inferior to the Bf 109.

Same goes for the Fw 190.

Don't even try and compare the P-80 shooting star to the P-51!!! Completely different generation of aircraft!

Seriously, lay off the video games...

Originally Posted by SILVERFISH1992

It was inferior to the FW-190D, Me-262, Bf-109, La-7, Yak-3, temptest, corsair, P-38 and more.

Inferior to:

Fw 190D - Possibly but not at all conditions. There are certainly conditions where the P-51D was at least and equal or better than the Fw 190D.

Me 262 - Why are you even trying to compare??? Two different generations of aircraft!

Bf 109 - See above... The P-51 and Bf 109 were equals with each having advantages and disadvantages over the other, with the P-51D probably having a slight edge.

La-7 - Explain how the P-51 was inferior, and do not use the video game as a reference.

Yak-3 - Explain how the P-51 was inferior, and do not use the video game as a reference.

Originally Posted by SILVERFISH1992

And its not a "game" its a sim.

It is a game, and if you think you can compare a video game to real flying especially under combat conditions you are very very mistaken!

[Waynos]

Silverfish - you may be better off using that reason in my 'illogical' thread than here According to my experience in CFS3 the Vampire could piss all over the Ho IX, Me 262 and P-80 with ease - but do I believe it to be true? Nah.

[Dark Matter]

Read the title of this thread, it asks what you think is the best aircraft.

So I stated my opinion and who cares what you think, and who cares what I think.

If you think it was the best then go ahead. All I'm saying is that I disagree.

[Doughboy]

Originally Posted by SILVERFISH1992

Want more?

The Me-309, F8F, hawker sea furry, YP-80 and I'l be back with some more...




I would like low altitude performance, more munuverability and not stalling all the time.

And its not a "game" its a sim.

I don't care if it's a game or a sim, it's still a game. YOU CAN'T BASE IT OFF A GAME.

[Dark Matter]

I dont base it of of a game, I just use the sim to get an idea of what it could be like.

How do you know its so awsome then?

[Doughboy]

Originally Posted by SILVERFISH1992

I dont base it of of a game, I just use the sim to get an idea of what it could be like.

How do you know its so awsome then?

It's considered to be the best plane of WWII and it was still in service in 1984!P-51 Mustang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Here is what a vet said about it.

"Robert Goebel flew Mustangs with the 31st Fighter Group, based at San Severo, Italy, in the MTO (Mediterranean Theater of Operations). Like Bud Anderson, he had flown P-39s earlier on. At San Severo in Spring 1944, he got his first crack at the P-51:

We soon found out that the P-51 Mustang was indeed a different breed of airplane. It was fast, for one thing. ... The P-51 was redlined at 505 and, though it was no Spitfire, its turning ability wasn't bad at all - especially if you sneaked down 10 degrees of flaps. It was pretty good in the climbing department too, and accelerated very fast in a dive. But the thing that really set the Mustang apart from any other fighter, friend or foe, was its range. With a 75-gallon tank slung under each wing, it could perform the unheard-of: It could fly six-hour missions.

Physically, it was pleasing to the eye and looked fast, even sitting on the ground. Power was provided by a V-1650 Rolls-Royce Merlin engine built under license in the States by Packard, the luxury automobile company. The V-1650 was a fine engine and could be taken up to 61 inches of manifold pressure at 3,000 RPM for take-off or, if needed in combat, 67 inches for up to five minutes in Emergency Power. Normally aspirated engines tended to run out of power as altitude increased, usually between 15,000 and 20,000 feet.

The P-51 had a two-stage blower in the induction system that was controlled automatically with a barometric switch. Around 17,000 feet, when the throttle had been advanced almost all the way forward just to maintain normal cruise, the blower would kick into high, the manifold pressure would jump up, and the climb could be continued to 30,000 feet. The P-51 could be taken a lot higher than that, but above 30,000 feet the power was way down and the controls had to be handled gingerly. "

[Dark Matter]

Who considers it to be the best?

Thats their opinion.

[Doughboy]

Please, read this.

"The P-51 Mustang was the excellent long range fighter aircraft which since late 1943 was the first to provide US heavy bombers with the type of escort they needed in order to efficiently destroy Nazi Germany's war production. Unlike earlier shorter-range allied fighters used for bomber escort, like the Spitfire, the P-47 and the P-38, the new P-51 Mustang was the first fighter which:

Could escort the heavy bombers all the way to their targets very deep in Germany and back.
Was equal or better than the Luftwaffe's best fighters and could defeat them over their own territory.
With these two significant advantages, the P-51 Mustang dramatically reduced the losses of the heavy bombers, shot down an increasing number of German fighters, and eventually also attacked many ground targets, mostly small but important ground targets which were too small for the high flying heavy bomber formations.
It was a cycle which gradually and systematically eroded the Luftwaffe and achieved allied air superiority deep over Nazi Germany.

Many of the bombarded targets were directly related to the Luftwaffe's ability to keep fighting, for example aircraft factories, and the fuel industry, which was systematically decimated. So after each such massive bombardment the German industry could produce less new fighters to replace combat losses, and of the fewer fighters, even fewer were actually able to take off and intercept the heavy bombers and face their Mustang escorts, because they suffered an increasingly severe shortage of fuel, spare parts, etc.

As a result of that, fewer heavy bombers were shot down by the German fighters and so more and more bombers participated in those bombardments, further increasing their damage to the German industry and so on.

The ever smaller number of German fighters available for interception missions meant that the German fighters were increasingly outnumbered over their own territory. Instead of facing swarms of hundreds of Me-109s and Fw-190s, the heavy bombers and their Mustang escorts gradually met smaller numbers of German fighters and were able to shoot down more of them, literally decimating the Luftwaffe, and further reducing losses among the heavy bombers.

Once local air superiority around the bomber formations was achieved, the P-51 Mustang pilots were able to go to the next step, storming Luftwaffe airfields and other ground targets and ambushing the German fighters at takeoff and landing.

This tactic was especially efficient against the Luftwaffe's new "wonder weapons", the new jet and rocket fighters. At high altitude and at full speed, the Mustang could not chase the much faster Me-262 jet fighters, so instead the Mustang pilots followed the German jets to their airfields where they shot them down as they descended at low speed for landing.

Over all, it was a classic example of a strategic campaign to achieve air superiority by destroying the enemy Air Force's ground infrastructures and by massively engaging it in the air while doing so.

The presence of the Mustangs over the heart of Germany also pulled a significant part of the Luftwaffe's tactical fighter squadrons from the war fronts to the center of Germany, which meant that tactical aircraft of The Allies could smash German ground units, especially German armor, with much greater ease.

The other great benefit of the air campaign over Germany, which was its goal in the first place, was that the huge formations of heavy bombers, efficiently protected by the P-51 Mustang "Little friends", were able to efficiently bring the mighty German war machine to a standstill. German war production of all types was significantly damaged and just like the grounded German jets, the German tanks in the battlefield also suffered extreme shortage of fuel and spare parts. For example, many of Germany's new mighty King Tiger tanks were simply abandoned in the field for lack of fuel.

One of the most successful fighter projects ever, the P-51 Mustang was North American's first fighter project. It was initially ordered in 1940 by the Royal Air Force which used it as a ground attack aircraft thanks to its high speed at low altitude and its long range. In 1942 the British made an experiment. They installed their superb 1500hp Rolls-Royce Merlin fighter engine in four Mustangs and tested them. The result was spectacular, clearly an excellent fighter, with an unprecedented range of 2080 miles (3347km) with external fuel tanks. This was the aircraft which later dominated the sky over Germany.

It was produced in very large numbers in several successively improved types. A total of 15,586 Mustangs were produced, and almost 8000 of them were of the most popular D type, which had a tear-drop shaped cockpit canopy. It had a high altitude speed of 704 km/h (437mph). It was armed with six 0.5" machine guns. Not a heavy armament compared with other fighters, but definitely enough against enemy fighters, its main target, and for strafing unarmored ground targets. For ground attack missions it could also carry two 1000lb bombs instead of the external fuel tanks, or six 5" rockets.

After World War 2 the Mustang served in no less than 55 air forces worldwide, and although it was the supersonic jet age by then, small numbers were even produced in 1967 for various military purposes, another proof of how excellent this aircraft was.

The most famous Mustang pilot and ace is Chuck Yeager. Yeager was the ultimate fighter pilot. As a young Mustang pilot he once downed five German fighters in one mission. He downed two much faster Me-262 jet fighters, escaped captivity after being shot down over occupied France, and when the war ended, it was still just the beginning of his amazing career. After the war Yeager became a test pilot, and in 1947 he earned his place in the history books as the first man who "broke the sound barrier" in the daring first supersonic flight. "

[Dark Matter]

Opinions!!!

The person who decided to biuld it in 1967 had an opinion it was the best.

[Doughboy]

It (P-51) had an 11:1 kill-to-loss ratio.....That seems to prove it was a great fighter.

BTW,So how many of these planes have you flown? If you can't trust what the vets said about it, then you have a problem.

[Dark Matter]

Yea but who was the P-51 fighting?

Inexperienced germans and japanese?

[Doughboy]

Originally Posted by SILVERFISH1992

Opinions!!!

The person who decided to biuld it in 1967 had an opinion it was the best.

Okay, so what evidence do you have that the P-51 wasn't a good plane?

[Doughboy]

Originally Posted by SILVERFISH1992

Yea but who was the P-51 fighting?

Inexperienced Germans and Japanese?

No, the P-51 flew the first time in 1940....The Germans and Japanese had very good pilots up to about 1944-1945.

[Dark Matter]

Then why did the japanese do kamakazi attacks if they were so good?

[Doughboy]

Originally Posted by SILVERFISH1992

Then why did the japanese do kamakazi attacks if they were so good?

I said up to about 1944-1945......


P.S You have yet to post a single bit of proof that the P-51 wasn't a good plane....and don't try to base the proof off a video game!