Best World War II Aircraft?

[Henk]

Yes, Nuremberg would be the perfect hit on the Nazis, but then they would use it to inspire their troops, but I do not think it would change the tide of the war though.

Henk

[Bullockracing]

I think that without american involvement, the bomb would have never been built, and hence not dropped on Germany. This is assuming that either:
1. America never enters, Germany gets stomped by Russia, or
2. America enters against Japan only, stomps Japan, Germany still gets stomped by Russia
Either way, by winter of '41/'42 the stage is set for the inevitable whoopin'.

[Henk]

!942 was when Germany lost the battle at Stalingrad and thus opened the gate for the Russians. By 1943 Germany started to really see that things are not running like it should. America would never have A bombed Germany. Look were Japan lies and where Germany lies on the map. If the US A bombed Germany it would have effected the whole Europe, but Japan is a island.

Germany were better to invade than Japan and the US and the rest of the allies knew that, but if they invaded Japan there would be greater losses.

Henk

[Pisis]

I can agrre on that.

pisis, why dresden when the raf so thoroughly destroyed it already??

You're quite right... But I meant if it won't be destroyed already...

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Bullockracing

I think that without american involvement, the bomb would have never been built, and hence not dropped on Germany. This is assuming that either:
1. America never enters, Germany gets stomped by Russia, or
2. America enters against Japan only, stomps Japan, Germany still gets stomped by Russia
Either way, by winter of '41/'42 the stage is set for the inevitable whoopin'.

The US would have developed the bomb even without entry into the war with Germany. The US was scared of the German capacity to build atomic weapons if it chose too.

[Henk]

Yes, but the scientist told Hitler they were coming on greatly, but they worked very slow and thus Hitler became annoyed and stopped it thinking that it was a waste.

Henk

[syscom3]

Henk, Germany was going to be the recipient of the first atomic weapons if the war was stalemated when they were available. March 1945 was when the presidents advisors decided that the wa rin Europe was going to end prior to then.

[Henk]

They talked the other day to the scientist who worked on that project and they described the things they told Hitler when he wanted a report on how things were coming on. The other things is after the Hydro dam were attacked in Norway and the Heavy Water Factory it was kinda the end of the project. Hitler saw the whole project as a waste and stopped it long before the war ended.

Hitler once said that his army does not need such weapons to be victorious.

Henk

[Bullockracing]

I agree with Henk, the cyclotron being worked on by Neils Bohr before he was spirited out of Europe was being watched very closely and he never achieved fission. The British Special Forces were watching this very closely, and had explosives planted under his lab to blow it to kingdom come had he been successful. Thus, the closest Hitler ever got to a bomb was a dirty radiological bomb.

[delcyros]

Not exactly. There are at least six german independent nuke projects identified so far. There was enough uranium captured in Germany to start the soviet nuke project in postwartimes (indeed the german material was absolutely crucial for them). Diebner succeeded in building a shortliving nuclear pile, Von Ardenne succeeded in building of at least three recyclotrons to enrichen Uranium and the Kriegsmariene units succeeded in various fuze designs for nukes with temporarly chain reaction (call them tactical or very dirty nukes). According to trace analysis at Ohrdruf there is some probability that at least one such bomb was tested in march 1945. Not to speak of the He-177 A6 modified in late march 1945 at Prague to carry a large, special "U- bombe". All in all that´s not a nuke but it seems they came closer than believed by the allies in postwartimes. Hitler never canceled the whole program, even the SS was involved in 1944 (as it was in the V2). Heisenberg was asked in 1942 if he could build a bomb of decisive force to be used in this war. He denied the question and therefore the funds were cutted down until 1944. It has also been estimated that Heisenberg miscalculated the critical mass but new evidence (Farm Hall reports and statements from V. Ardenne and Böhl) question this. At least Diebner absolutely correctly gave the critical mass for a nuke in his papers.

[Bullockracing]

I still agree with Henk. Germany and America operating in a vacuum, Germany will still not be able to complete a functioning "atomic" weapon, prior to Russia kicking the snot out of them. America did put the proper funding and priority into an atomic weapons program and Germany didn't. The British actually confounded the German atomic program at every turn, including the Hydro Plant sabotage referred to by Henk, and stealing heavy water right out from under the Nazi noses in a French port.

[delcyros]

The US were strategically more correct, yes. A nuke would have little effect against the advancing red army as well.
But Your statement with the british almost confounding is wrong. This is true for exterior programs only (Norway). And even this is not true at all. The most advanced nation in nuclear technology by outbreak of the war wasn´t Germany or Britain but France! What did the british to prevent the facilities (including the Paris recyclotron!) from falling into german hands? Nothing. Norsk Hydro delivered more than enough heavy water for all experiments in Germany. By 1943 the first german heavy water facilities were online. And the british intellegence completely failed to acknowledge Ardennes, Schuhmann and Trinks role in the nuke projects, letting them go to Russia and work for the soviet nuke project.

[Henk]

I do not know about what you say mate, where did you get the info?

Henk

[Bullockracing]

Actually, Italy was further ahead as far as scientific research goes, but they didn't follow up with military support. Germany had quite a few projects, but lacked a unilateral view of a single project. Had Germany consolidated their projects under a team of their best scientists, I am sure they would have had an operational bomb before the end of the war. All that being said, that would have been the only way Germany would have "the" bomb, much less use it.

[Henk]

The scientists used for some of these projects was forced to work on it and also did not want to do it so they stalled it and made sure it will not go further.

Henk