Best WWII fighter pilot....?

[Lucky13]

I know that we've been going over this over and over and over again...who was the best fighter pilot of WWII, but to be honest have we really? Let's be honest, the russians didn't have much to write home about in the Great Patriotic War and the same for the Japanese at the end of WWII.... The Luftwaffe was way ahead of the VVS in the beginning, the same for IJN and IJAAF against the USN, USMC and USAAF.....before they catched up and passed with the Hellcat and Corsair...
But WHO was really the better pilot of the war if you look at skills, imagination, ability to switch from one fighter type to another, brains to come up with new tactics etc. etc..who was the COMPLETE fighter pilot?
Nationality won't do anything good here, who would come out on top in a mock fight in Bf 109G-6....Gunther Rall or Hans-Joachim Marseille, P-47D....Richard I. Bong or Gregory "Pappy" Boyington....and so on...could even put Rall and Marseille in a P-51D, just for the sake of the discussion? Put two pilots in a similar fighter, launch them at the same time from two different airfields....in the end, who'd be the last man standing?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I personally have to go with Heinz Bär.

Short bio:

Missions flown: 1000

Theatres flown in: West, East and Med

Kills: 221 (124 in the West and 16 with the Me 262)

Shot Down: 18

Acft Flown:
Junkers Ju 52/3m
Messerschmitt Bf 109E
Messerschmitt Bf 109F
Focke Wulf 190 A-7
Messerschmitt Me 262

Units Assigned To:
JG 51
JG 77
JGr. Süd
JG 1
JG 3
EJG 2
JV 44

Units Commanded:
12./JG 51
I.JG 77
JGr. Süd
II./JG 1
JG 3
III./EJG 2
JV 44

Awards:
Silver Would Badge
German Cross in Gold (27 May 1942)
Front Flying Clasp of the Luftwaffe in Gold with Pennant "1000"
Honor Goblet of the Luftwaffe
Africa Cuff Title
Iron Cross 2nd Class
Iron Cross 1st Class (July 1940)
Knights Cross (2. July 1941)
Oakleaves (14. August 1941)
Swords (16. February 1942)

[Lucky13]

Didn't he die in a private plane crash after the war Adler.....70's or so?

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

I guess Erich Hartmann for his all time high of kills. There were a lot of German pilots probably as good or better than him but didn't have time to reach his score or met with bad luck, such as Hans-Joachim Marseille. Some just didn't have the luck to meet enemy aircraft on missions. Dick Bong was one of those, he often met enemy aircraft at a unusual rate and in odd places.

Galland was a good warrior in every way, he didn't care for Hitler much and his policies.

Pappy Boyington was certainly a good fighter pilot. He also let his pilots under him have a lot of freedom in dogfighting, and didn't restrict their movements as some squadron commanders did. It was also risky at the same time, but a lot of his men became aces so it certainly worked.


The British always downplayed their high scoring pilots, so often you hear less about their individual albilities than other countries pilots, who would often make national heroes out of them. But some pilots, like Douglas Bader by sheer charisma and skill, did make headlines and change tactics.

[ToughOmbre]

I've always thought that Hans-Joachim Marseille was one of the best, if not the best. 158 kills in 382 missions. Had it not been for a bailout accident that killed him in 1942, his victory total could have possibly surpassed Hartmann's 352. The "Star of Africa" was a fitting nickname.

TO

[plan_D]

The Luftwaffe seem to posess the greatest pilots of the war when it comes to individual skill; the numbers speak for themselves. The Luftwaffe pilots did have a lot of oppurtunity to hone their skill before meeting an air force on par with their own, so it's hardly surprising that their kill numbers are so high.

The question that should be asked here is, what makes a good pilot? Is a pilot target practice? Is a good pilot a pilot than can stay alive? Is a great pilot a man who can shoot down enemy aircraft? Is an amazing pilot a man who can lead his whole squadron into ace status?

You have to really wonder - who's more important?

[Catch22]

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

I've always thought that Hans-Joachim Marseille was one of the best, if not the best. 158 kills in 382 missions. Had it not been for a bailout accident that killed him in 1942, his victory total could have possibly surpassed Hartmann's 352. The "Star of Africa" was a fitting nickname.

TO

I completely agree. I read somewhere that his ground crew counted how many bullets he used per plane after a mission and it was something like 60. Ironically he delayed switching from the Friedrich to the Gustav because the G's were having teething problems with their engines, and once he was forced to switch, that's what ended up killing him.

[pbfoot]

The german pilots records speak for themselves but I'd like to take PlanD's statement and add an Allied pilot for consideration
Lloyd Chadburn with 20 kills 2 DSO's 2 E boats 1 destroyer badly damaged his wing in escorting 60 9th AF missions in 1943 lost only lost only 1 B26 to fighters while shooting down 66 enemy aircraft without loss to the wing. The 9th AF called him the Angel. He was killed in a mid air with another Spit in june 44

[FLYBOYJ]

How about "Butcher' Bob Hansen?

"A master of individual air combat, he downed 20 enemy planes in six consecutive flying days."

Robert M. Hanson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Didn't he die in a private plane crash after the war Adler.....70's or so?

Yes he did die in a private plane crash at the age of 44 on 28 April 1957.

He would actually get himself in trouble a lot because he did not believe in authority. He just went out and flew his missions which was his job. He was actually recommended the Diamonds for his Knights Cross on 3 seperate occasions and was turned down by Göring himself because he was not a "good" little Nazi.

Erich Hartmann has the most kills and he is my favorite pilot but he was not the most technicaly best pilot. There were plenty of pilots that were better than him on all sides.

Now having said that he does deserve the title as "Greatest" because his kill list is the highest and will never be approaced.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Heinz Bar actually reminds me a bit of the Americans pilots.


With today's technology, wouldn't it be possible for a really good pilot flying a "stealth" plane to score a really high numbers of kills? He would sneak up on his opponents from miles away, and shoot them all before they could even locate them. I don't think there has been a fighter like that yet. It wouldn't be the same as the old fighter pilots, who really went head to head with their opponents, but it could be chillingly effective.

[Lucky13]

With all the stealth and other weapons....we'll soon be back to square one, when it all will be up to the pilots and GUNS....

[claidemore]

I think many of the qualities needed for a good fighter pilot would be inherited. In that case I would look pretty closesly at Arthur Bishop. Between his father (William) and himself, they accounted for 73 German planes. Best father/son combo AFAIK.