Which is better: P-47 or Fw-190?

[Erich]

no it was made of metal and there was some consideration on the last batch to use wood. The TA 152 was in the same boat with materials. The 109K-4's tailsection was of wood though

the D-9 was mince meat in front of .50's, but in numerous older postings I have given credence to the firepower of 2cm and 3cm Minen Geschoss

[delcyros]

0.50 cal. M3 are no common equippment at the ETO in general. A few have been in PTO I think, but I don´t even know of a single ETO 0.50 M3 equipped plane (maybe there are). And the 0.50 M2 is not that impressive, anyway the HE rounds of 20mm MG 151/20 and 30mm MK 108 are more than enough to deal with a P-47. They are less probable to hit but less hits are needed to ensure destruction, also. Who wins?
If you want to initiate a "what if" with the 0.50 M3, than we have some MG213B/20 mm, also and this can be regarded as the ultimative air to air gun.
Anyway, the P-47N has a considerable speed advantage over the D-9 and can hold it´s top speed for a longer time.
This works positively for the energy managemant of the P-47N.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

I don't know Soren, wasn't the D-9s tail wood? I hate to have 50s going through my empannage! (What the hell did I just say?)

FLYBOYJ i think you missunderstood me

When I said "BIG bird" i meant the -47, not the D-9. Which is why I said i would prefer the D-9's armament if up against the -47, as .50's most likely aint gonna do much damage to a -47.

[FLYBOYJ]

OH - ok

[Erich]

yes HE 13mm would do some damage to the P-47.

as I said earlier I am rather doubtful any P-47 ran up against the Dora, the topic should read the Jug bubble or razorback type against the Fw 190A variants

[Soren]

yes HE 13mm would do some damage to the P-47.

Yes, but U.S. .50's wouldnt, or yes they would, but it wouldnt be much.

as I said earlier I am rather doubtful any P-47 ran up against the Dora, the topic should read the Jug bubble or razorback type against the Fw 190A variants.

Agreed.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

OH - ok

No problem FLYBOYJ

[DAVIDICUS]

I have read that the D-9 could only muster 397mph at 32,000ft. (In fact, the source I read states that its speed decreased from a high of 426mph at 21,650ft [http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevo...r/fw190d.html]) If that is the case, I think the P-47N could easily handle the D-9 at higher altitudes. The P-47N could do 467mph at 32,000ft.

I have never been able to find climb rate information on the P-47N. I have seen climb figures for the P-47M which had the same souped up power plant as the "N" model.

From: http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/qu...485/P-47M.html

Climb, at max. gross weight (including three 75 gallon drop tanks): 4.9 minutes to 15,000 feet at 2,600 rpm (1700 hp). Reportedly, the "M" could reach 20,000 feet in 5.7 minutes at military power (2,100 hp @ 2,800 rpm). 20,000 feet in 4.75 minutes in WEP (2,800 hp @ 2,800 rpm). This is with full internal fuel and ammo. No external stores or drop tanks. In other words, normal load, clean configuration.

Of course, the "M" model was lighter. Additionally, however, I don't know how the P-47N's new and larger wing might have influenced its ability to climb.

[DAVIDICUS]

From: http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/qu...485/P-47M.html

P-47N in ass-whoop mode.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by DAVIDICUS

I have read that the D-9 could only muster 397mph at 32,000ft. (In fact, the source I read states that its speed decreased from a high of 426mph at 21,650ft [http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevo...r/fw190d.html]) If that is the case, I think the P-47N could easily handle the D-9 at higher altitudes. The P-47N could do 467mph at 32,000ft.

I have never been able to find climb rate information on the P-47N. I have seen climb figures for the P-47M which had the same souped up power plant as the "N" model.

From: http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/qu...485/P-47M.html

Climb, at max. gross weight (including three 75 gallon drop tanks): 4.9 minutes to 15,000 feet at 2,600 rpm (1700 hp). Reportedly, the "M" could reach 20,000 feet in 5.7 minutes at military power (2,100 hp @ 2,800 rpm). 20,000 feet in 4.75 minutes in WEP (2,800 hp @ 2,800 rpm). This is with full internal fuel and ammo. No external stores or drop tanks. In other words, normal load, clean configuration.

Of course, the "M" model was lighter. Additionally, however, I don't know how the P-47N's new and larger wing might have influenced its ability to climb.

Holy mother of mary ! Those climb figures have got to be off !

The -47N certainly would outrun the D-9, but outclimb it, no way !

[DAVIDICUS]

Those are figures for the "M" not the "N" model. I don't think they are off. Consider that the XP-47J also had that same "C" series powerplant. It's performance was as follows:

From: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Sev...Republic7.html

The XP-47M was, essentially, developed collaterally with the XP-47J. The J was fitted with a high output version of the P&W R-2800. Specifically, the R-2800-57. This engine made 2,800 hp @ 2,800 rpm at 35,000 feet. This is in War Emergency Power. The aircraft actually attained 507 mph at an altitude of 34,300 feet. 2,800 hp is 133% of rated power. At military power (100%), the XP-47J could sustain 470 mph. 435 mph was attained at 81% of it's rated power (1,700 hp). All performance figures were obtained at 34,300 feet. The J model was an especially good climbing fighter too. It had a climb rate at sea level of 4,900 fpm. At 20,000 feet, it was still rocketing up at 4,400 fpm, and got there in 4 minutes, 15 seconds. Time to 30,000 feet was only 6 minutes, 45 seconds. Now that's an interceptor! Yet it had a usable range of 1,075 miles. Rather impressive performance. Nor was this a stripped down hotrod. It was fully armed and carried ballast in the wings equal to 267 rds per gun. The aircraft was flown to a height of 46,500 feet and was capable of a bit more.

I offered ther "M" data purely for speculative purposes as I can't seem to locate any data on the "N" climb rates.

[syscom3]

Thought you guys would like this pix...... five P47's patrolling the sky's over Chino, California.

You dont see this happen everyday.

[Nonskimmer]

Nice! Did you take that yourself?

[DAVIDICUS]

Be still my beating heart!

What a treat that must have been.

On a related note, on September 10th and 11th, there will be a reunion of P-47's at Lunken Airshow in Cincinnatti, Ohio. The event is called, "Can You Hear The Thunder, A Gathering of P-47's"

I believe they are expecting six or seven aircraft and some will be flying. In addition, there will be a P-47 ace there too.

[syscom3]

I took these pictures a few weeks ago at the Chino airshow.

Even when they're on the ground they look deadly