Which is better: P-47 or Fw-190?

DAVIDICUS · 06-06-2005, 09:22 PM

Concerning the "M" model, that 4.75 minutes to 20K figure is at WEP.

At MP, it took 5.75 minutes to reach 20K ft.

plan_D · 06-06-2005, 09:22 PM

That's a great chart. The Meteor III had an awful climb rate, I thought it'd be better than that.

I saw 9 minutes for Spitfire XIV climb to 20,000 feet once. I couldn't stop laughing for, oh, about 9 minutes.

DAVIDICUS · 06-06-2005, 09:27 PM

And I once saw Soren quote 2,770 fpm as the initial climb rate for the P-47N.

( just poking fun Soren)

Soren · 06-06-2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVIDICUS

Concerning the "M" model, that 4.75 minutes to 20K figure is at WEP.

At MP, it took 5.75 minutes to reach 20K ft.

The Spit's presented climb rate is with boost aswell.

Soren · 06-06-2005, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVIDICUS

And I once saw Soren quote 2,770 fpm as the initial climb rate for the P-47N.

( just poking fun Soren)

You hurt my feelings

plan_D · 06-06-2005, 09:32 PM

I've probably missed it but what is the initial climb rate for the P-47N? On this, what books would be good to get on the P-47?

Soren · 06-06-2005, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

I've probably missed it but what is the initial climb rate for the P-47N? On this, what books would be good to get on the P-47?

"Republic P-47 Thunderbolt" by Frederick Johnsen, and "Republic's P-47 Thunderbolt: From Seversky to Victory" by Warren M. Bodie, are both good books.

DAVIDICUS · 06-06-2005, 09:42 PM

That, my good man, is precisely what all the speculation is about. That is why the "D", "M" and XP-47J models' performance figures are being discussed. We don't seem to have any reliable "N" model climb data and are trying to extrapolate through guesstimation.

If you go back through the thread, it will all become clear ... or not.

plan_D · 06-06-2005, 09:43 PM

5,500 feet per minute for the Hornet, that's quite impressive. Not nearly as impressive as 50,000 feet per minute which the F.6 Lightning's initial climb rate was! Amazing, since the Lightning was a 1947 design.

plan_D · 06-06-2005, 09:46 PM

That's what I thought, Davidicus. So, I take it the Fw-190D-9 and P-47N must be pretty close in climb rates.

FLYBOYJ · 06-06-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

Not nearly as impressive as 50,000 feet per minute which the F.6 Lightning's initial climb rate was!

But a Bearcat is faster in a climb off the mark........

plan_D · 06-06-2005, 10:06 PM

The Lightning will still get to 10,000 feet quicker. AVPIN kicks in, ignites the engines, brakes off and he's a rocket soaring vertically in a matter of seconds.

My dad used to scramble 'em while with 11 Sqd....he said from scramble call to take off, under 2 minutes was easy.

DAVIDICUS · 06-06-2005, 10:26 PM

If you accept the "M" model's climb figures that I presented (again, that's "if"), the P-47"M" pulled an average of 4,200fpm throughour its 20,000 ft climb at War Emergency Power. I would imagine that it's initial climb rate would have been 4,500fpm which would be 400fpm shy of climb rate for the super hot 504mph, 46,000 ft ceiling XP-47J.

The XP-47J had the same powerplant, same wing, but had a close fitting cowling and weighed about 1,000 lbs less in loaded configuration than the "M".

The "N" model weighed about 3,000lbs more in loaded configuration than the "M" model, had the same powerplant as the "M" and XP-47J models and had 14sq. ft. more wing area with clipped wing tips.

Yeah, I think your statement that, "So, I take it the Fw-190D-9 and P-47N must be pretty close in climb rates." is quite plausible if not likely. I have read that the P-47N had no problem handling the late war Japanese rice rockets like the Ki-84 Frank which had a 3,600fpm initial climb rate.

Soren · 06-06-2005, 10:32 PM

I would guess the -47N's climb rate to be around 3,100 ft/min, and the -47M's to be the mentioned 3,500ft/min. The -47J's climb rate I would guess to be around 3,900ft/min.

The Fw-190D-9's climb rate was 3,660ft/min.

DAVIDICUS · 06-06-2005, 10:53 PM

Clearly we are not going to resolve this issue. (At least not tonight)

The first and most obvious problem I see with the 3,100fpm initial climb rate for the P-47N is that is is below the widely accepted post paddle blade "D" model climb rate figure which you have cited.

The new "C" series engine shared by both the "M" and "N", managed to advance the top speed of the "M" model to over 470mph (It is claimed that it could actually go 488mph with some tweaking in the field) from the 429mph of the "D" model. The only other difference between the "D" and "M" was 1,200lbs of weight. The point here is that the new "C" series engine was a tremendous boost in power and performance. That same "C" series engine that drove the "M" to over 470mph drove the "N" to 467mph.

That being the case, I'm just finding it difficult to accept a lower climb rate for the "N" model vis a vis the "D" model.