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Bf 109- Bf? or Me?

Aviation Discuss Bf 109- Bf? or Me? in the World War II - Aviation forums; Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet No the actuall date has nothing to do with it. It could have happened in 1944 ...


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Old 01-12-2006, 10:15 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet
No the actuall date has nothing to do with it. It could have happened in 1944 for all I care, the date has nothing to do with it.
Now you just argue that it has nothing to do with the date. Or it has nothing to do with the fact that the factory changed it's name. On what grounds?


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The RLM did not go: "Okay its 1938, lets change the system!"
Hmm, where it was said that it was RLM that changed the system?

The naming system in germany was standardized all along and called for two letters that designated the manufacturer. Though RLM used only number to denote aircraft, as we agreed previously. If the name of the manufacturer was changed, this obviously affected the designation.

I still argue that after Willy Messerschmitt acquired Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (designated Bf then) in summer 1938, and changed the factory name to Messerschmitt A.G, the designation was changed to Me. And all the prototypes completed after the name change, received Me designation.


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As for the different manufacturer of the 162.
I never said that 162 had different manufacturer, I said that 162 had different manufacturer DESIGNATION. Of course, I meant Bf 162 all the time, when I was talking about 162 and 163.

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The Bf-162 program was actually designed in response to a 1935 program for a Schnellbomber. Messerschmitt took a Bf-110 and put a glazed nose on it for a bombadier and the prototype flew in 1937.
There you go...Bf 162 was designed before Willy Messerschmitt acquired the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke, hence the designation Bf 162. After the cancellation of Bf 162, the number 162 was assigned for security purposes to Heinkel project and it became the well-known He 162 Volksjäger (I remember reading from somewhere that this aircraft was originally supposed to be He 500, before it was assigned the number 162). Anyway, in my understanding, this Bf 162 project was the last one completed in Bayerische Flugzeugwerke, before the name of the factory was changed.

Once more, take for example the Me 163 Komet, that I used as an example previously...the initial prototype was completed early 1939 and got the designation Me, not Bf. The previous project was Bf 162, that was completed (as you stated) in 1937 and got the designation Bf.

In my opinion, this is quite simple: after changing name from Bayerische Flugzeugwerke to Messerschmitt A.G, the manufacturer designation was changed from Bf to Me. And this happened in the summer of 1938, because Willy Messerschmitt took over the factory and as the top boss, wanted to change the name.

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Old 01-12-2006, 11:18 AM   #17
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Um what makes you think that Messerschmitt aquired Bayerische Flugzeugwerk in 1938? It was messerschmitt that designed the Bf-109 in 1935. You are contradicting yourself. Keep telling yourself what you have to, so that you can sleep at night.
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Old 01-12-2006, 12:50 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet
Um what makes you think that Messerschmitt acquired Bayerische Flugzeugwerk in 1938? It was messerschmitt that designed the Bf-109 in 1935. You are contradicting yourself. Keep telling yourself what you have to, so that you can sleep at night.
Well, gee, I don't know...how about common knowledge?

In 1926/27 Willy Messerschmitt joined Bayerische Flugzeugwerke as chief designer/engineer. That's no secret. NOTE, he joined, he did not buy the company, so he was just an employee...thus the name of the company still was Bayerische Flugzeugwerke.

By 1938, the last name of the designer (Willy Messerschmitt) was more known than the company's name 'Bayerische Flugzeugwerke'. Because of this, the chief designer (Willy Messerschmitt) became general director of the company. So one can say that he 'acquired' the company. In addition, the name of the company was changed at that time to....SURPRISE...Messerschmitt AG. prior to 1938, there was no company called Messerschmitt.

About Bf 109...yes, you are right that Messerschmitt designed the aircraft. BUT I never denied that. PLEASE NOTE: it was Willy Messerschmitt who designed Bf 109 but at that time (in 1935) he was still an employee of Bayerische Flugzeugwerke AND the aircraft itself was manufactured by Bayerische Flugzeugwerke.

Look, this is all common knowledge and there are probably 1000 books and 100000 websites, that you can browse through and see that all these changes took place in summer of 1938 and how the designations were altered

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Old 01-13-2006, 03:40 AM   #19
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sorry all the info i can get here in this country and at my age is wikipedia stuff and books that all say the same things, i even had a book that says nothing good about the 109,

thats why i look through this forum, but havent done so thoroughly
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Old 01-13-2006, 06:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -JJH-
Look, this is all common knowledge and there are probably 1000 books and 100000 websites, that you can browse through and see that all these changes took place in summer of 1938 and how the designations were altered

-JJ-
So basically you are saying that I am full of **** huh? Alright I got you.
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