Bf 109- Bf? or Me?

MichaelHenley · 01-07-2006, 12:11 AM

Hi guys!
Just a question from me:
I have a small diecast model of a Bf 109. On the base of the stand it came with it says Me-109.

What is the difference there for? Was there ever a variant, or is it a typo? And what does "Bf" Stand for?

In other news, I've been to europe, I went to the IWM Duxford and RAF Museum at Hendon- both of those were fantastic! Dad was thrilled at Duxford to be able to see an SR-71.
One of my favourite bombs on display was the "Airfield Denial" one they used in the gulf war...

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-07-2006, 03:27 AM

this's been over several times..........

loomaluftwaffe · 01-07-2006, 06:57 AM

Bf stands for Bayerische Flugzeugwerke it still said Bf even after Meserschmitt bought that company. Later it was changed to Messerschmitt Flugzeugwerke. oh and there have been topics like this before...

cheddar cheese · 01-07-2006, 10:08 AM

All Messerschmitts prior to the Bf-162 (Bf-109, Bf-110) have the correct designation of Bf, all those afterwards (Me-210, Me-163, Me-262) are designated Me.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-08-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loomaluftwaffe

Bf stands for Bayerische Flugzeugwerke it still said Bf even after Meserschmitt bought that company. Later it was changed to Messerschmitt Flugzeugwerke. oh and there have been topics like this before...

We have gone all over this before. Messerschmitt did not buy the Company. Willie Messerschmitt joined the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke which brought all the Bavarian companies together. Originally all aircraft that were designed recieved the prefix based off of there company hense Bf and not Me. Later and this happened between the Bf-162 and the Me-163 the prefix's came from the chief designer of the company hense Me-262, however the Bf-109 retained the Bf prefix even after this happened.

Go check out the Bf-109 thread that I have started because a lot of people have asked a lot of Bf-109 questions and I wish to consolidate them.

MichaelHenley · 01-08-2006, 06:20 PM

oops! sorry guys

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-08-2006, 06:22 PM

Nothing to be sorry about, you did not know.

Lunatic · 01-09-2006, 01:08 AM

I'm pretty sure that Me109 is also proper for later model 109's, as that is the factory production designation.

Emmanual Gustin once presented info on this in reponse to my comment that Me109 was incorrect.

=S=

Lunatic

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-09-2006, 02:17 AM

Me-109 is pretty much acceptable and given and both are correct, however if you actually look at RLM documents and Messerschmitt Documents it is Bf-109. The 109 was the only one that officially kept the designation.

schwarzpanzer · 01-10-2006, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Bf 109 was the official Reichsluftfahrtministerium designation, since the design was sent in by the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke company. Because the company was renamed to Messerschmitt, some late-war aircraft actually carried the Me 109 designation stamped onto their aircraft type plates. Me 109 was the name used officially by the Luftwaffe propaganda publications as well as by the Messerschmitt company and the Luftwaffe personnel, who pronounced it 'may hundred-nine'. ME 109 (pronounced 'emm ee one-oh-nine') was the contemporary English interpretation of the designation. However, in both wartime and contemporary literature, both the "Bf" and "Me" prefixes are used, and both are considered valid and accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me109

I don't suppose it matters what you use, if both are correct what's the problem.

Also the Me163 can be called the Lippisch 163!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-11-2006, 03:11 AM

Yes as I said in my post both are correct and valid.

-JJH- · 01-11-2006, 10:32 AM

IIRC the Bf designation was usually used on aircraft that was originally designed prior to 1938. After 1938 this was changed to Me. So, originally 109 was designed earlier and thus received the Bf 109 designation.

Though, this really does not matter what the aircraft is called in what paper, since officially in RLM papers the 109 was ALWAYS 8-109, not Bf 109 or Me 109 or mE/109 or even bF-/&%#109

. Number 8 was for aircraft (number 9 was for engines, I believe) and 109 was simply the batch number assigned to the aircraft

-JJ-

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-12-2006, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -JJH-

IIRC the Bf designation was usually used on aircraft that was originally designed prior to 1938. After 1938 this was changed to Me. So, originally 109 was designed earlier and thus received the Bf 109 designation.

Though, this really does not matter what the aircraft is called in what paper, since officially in RLM papers the 109 was ALWAYS 8-109, not Bf 109 or Me 109 or mE/109 or even bF-/&%#109

. Number 8 was for aircraft (number 9 was for engines, I believe) and 109 was simply the batch number assigned to the aircraft

-JJ-

The date 1938 has nothing to do with the change. As of 1939 there still was not Me designation in use it was still Bf. The change came between the Bf-162 and the Me-163.

As for the numerical designation you are correct.

Aircraft bore the number 8 or 10 such as 8-109. Gliders used the numericals 108 such as the DFS 108-30. Engines were 9 such as 9-100 series being BMW engines or 9-600 serieis being Daimler Benz. BMW later was changed to the 800 series. Engine accessories also used the 9 prefix such as 9-5000 series being manifolds and air ducts. Proppellors and spare parts used the designation 109 such as 109-007 is Daimler Benz (ZTL 5000) This also later changed.

-JJH- · 01-12-2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

The date 1938 has nothing to do with the change. As of 1939 there still was not Me designation in use it was still Bf. The change came between the Bf-162 and the Me-163.

Really?...Have you ever thought why the change came between Bf 162 and the Me 163?

Check out the design dates: Bf 162 was originally designed prior to summer 1938, some prototypes were manufactured in 1937 or early 1938 (cannot remember more accurately). On the other hand Me 163 was originally designed by Lippisch, BUT the head designer (and the team??) went to the Messerschmitt and completed their project somewhere in 1939, thus Me 163 was born.

So, why the number 162 has different manufacturer designation than 163?

162 was the last prototype that was designed prior to 1938 and 163 was the first that was designed (and completed) after 1938. we have to assume that something happened during 1938. Well, surprise, Willy Messerschmitt acquired the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke in summer 1938 and named it Messerschmitt!!

I'd stick with my previous statement, that the year 1938 has something to do with this...

-JJ-

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-12-2006, 08:31 AM

No the actuall date has nothing to do with it. It could have happened in 1944 for all I care, the date has nothing to do with it. The RLM did not go: "Okay its 1938, lets change the system!"

As for the different manufacturer of the 162. The Bf-162 was the Jaguar and that was highly unsuccessful and it the program was cancled. Later they Heinkel Volks Jaeger program was started up and it recieved the number 162. The Bf-162 program was actually designed in response to a 1935 program for a Schnellbomber. Messerschmitt took a Bf-110 and put a glazed nose on it for a bombadier and the prototype flew in 1937.