Blue Nosed Bastards without their blue noses ???

[Maestro]

Greetings ladies and gentlemen.



I recently was surfing the internet about the 352nd FG of the USAAF and I found out that not all of the planes they flew had blue noses... In fact, you could have a blue nosed P-51 flying with a "standard painted" P-47 in the same squadron...

Here are a few examples...

486th FS, 352nd FG P-47


486th FS, 352nd FG P-51


487th FS, 352nd FG P-47


487th FS, 352nd FG P-51


I also noticed that it was the same thing with the 343rd FS of the 55th FG. In that squadron, most (if not all) of the P-51Ds had the yellow rudder with a red stallion. (Like the following picture.)



However, their P-38s were painted on a completely different patern.

Now, I thought that all planes in the same squadron had to be painted in the same patern. Why that difference ? Is it only because some pilots were bored of their "standard" paint job ?

[drgondog]

Greetings ladies and gentlemen.

I recently was surfing the internet about the 352nd FG of the USAAF and I found out that not all of the planes they flew had blue noses... In fact, you could have a blue nosed P-51 flying with a "standard painted" P-47 in the same squadron...

Here are a few examples...

486th FS, 352nd FG P-47


486th FS, 352nd FG P-51


487th FS, 352nd FG P-47


487th FS, 352nd FG P-51


I also noticed that it was the same thing with the 343rd FS of the 55th FG. In that squadron, most (if not all) of the P-51Ds had the yellow rudder with a red stallion. (Like the following picture.)



However, their P-38s were painted on a completely different patern.

Now, I thought that all planes in the same squadron had to be painted in the same patern. Why that difference ? Is it only because some pilots were bored of their "standard" paint job ?

The 8th AF had two timeframes for paint scheme changes. Mar-April 1944 and November 1944.

Prior to that time virtually every fighter had white cowl bands and white ETO stripes on horizontal and vertical stabilizers for both P-47s and the new P-51s

In March the 4th started getting red nose/cowl band, the 352nd started putting Blue on the 47 cowl to replace white, then went to famous Blue scheme including OD panel for April Mustangs. The 357FG started their red/yellow checkered cowl band an the 355th kept the white cowl band and spinner, etc. The 56th as a P-47 group retained their Red Band.

To further confuse, the new ships had a Black Spinner and cowl band when they arrived from the 8th AF Depots and sometimes took awhile to remove and re-paint... so you will see this confusing scheme in April-May timeframe as the NMF ships arrived in more numbers.

The Black ETO wing and tail stripe re-appeared with the NMF Mustangs and continued through October for most NMF Mustangs.

In Late October and November, the 8th AF directed the different squadrons to paint the rudder (usually red, blue and yellow) and cowl to differentiate some groups that had solid cowl bands.

The 355th retained their white nose/spinner throughout the war and changed from white cowl/rudder to the matching red/red, blue/blue, yellow/yellow cowl band/rudder scheme.

Does this help? BTW The Mighty Eighth by Freeman has excellent color plates to differentiate the different groups at different times.

[Erich]

Maestro I know the pilot of Miss Velma and asked him specifically about the stallion, not all of his squadron had the horse put on the rudder, and in fact another fg also used a similar pic on their rudder as well. P-47 of the 352nd did have the white cowl band as perscribed by the regs as Bill pointed out and later a blue band but the P-47 were to remain as hacks in the Blue nosers fg replaced by the more efficient long running Mustangs

[fly boy]

never hered that

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

never hered that

Never heard that.

[ccheese]

Adler: I hope you have lots of space set aside for the quotes of fly boy.

Charles

[Erich]

no never hurd that, like hurdin cattle down younder

[Maestro]

The 8th AF had two timeframes for paint scheme changes. Mar-April 1944 and November 1944.

Prior to that time virtually every fighter had white cowl bands and white ETO stripes on horizontal and vertical stabilizers for both P-47s and the new P-51s

In March the 4th started getting red nose/cowl band, the 352nd started putting Blue on the 47 cowl to replace white, then went to famous Blue scheme including OD panel for April Mustangs. The 357FG started their red/yellow checkered cowl band an the 355th kept the white cowl band and spinner, etc. The 56th as a P-47 group retained their Red Band.

To further confuse, the new ships had a Black Spinner and cowl band when they arrived from the 8th AF Depots and sometimes took awhile to remove and re-paint... so you will see this confusing scheme in April-May timeframe as the NMF ships arrived in more numbers.

The Black ETO wing and tail stripe re-appeared with the NMF Mustangs and continued through October for most NMF Mustangs.

In Late October and November, the 8th AF directed the different squadrons to paint the rudder (usually red, blue and yellow) and cowl to differentiate some groups that had solid cowl bands.

The 355th retained their white nose/spinner throughout the war and changed from white cowl/rudder to the matching red/red, blue/blue, yellow/yellow cowl band/rudder scheme.

Does this help? BTW The Mighty Eighth by Freeman has excellent color plates to differentiate the different groups at different times.

I see... Thanks for the information.

I see that the brass always liked to mess things up... In the UK it was squadron codes, in the US it was the paint scheme !