BoB...

[Arnfinn]

Hej everybody,
I am a modeller trying to find out what other aircraft were in use during the Battle of Britain other than the 'classics' (you know, Spitfire, Hurricane, Bf-109, He-111, Do-17 etc. etc.), whether they were actually involved in combat or not. I am given to understand that a few early Mustangs were involved in the fighting, as well as some Kittyhawks (?). I am also very interested in any and all aircraft that were in use with all protagonists during the early years of the war, up to the Battle of Britain. I have a rough idea, but am missing detailed info on France, the Netherlands, and the eastern european countries. Any suggestions as to internet sources are most welcome, as well as information.
Cheers!
//Adrian

[evangilder]

The Mustang could not have been flown for the Battle of Britain. The first production Mustang I for the RAF (AG345) flew for the first time on April 23, 1941, well past the BoB.

[merlin]

I have never seen any mention of the P-40 (of any sub-type) being involved in the Battle of Britain. The P-36 (export version) served with the French Air Force, in the Battle of France, and Britain received some in crates - which in theory could have been used - but the availability of fighter aircraft was such that they weren't needed.

Otherwise - welcome.

[Waynos]

The RAF's order of battle for fighter command for the Battle of Britain consisted of the Hurricane, Spitfire, Blenheim and Defiant. All other types were out of theatre or non operational. Bomber Command operations during the battle featured the Wellington, Whitley, Hampden and Blenheim (German bombers v British fighters was not the entire BoB, just most of it), after its mauling in France the Fairey Battle did not feature.

On the German side you can also include the Bf-110, Ju-87, Ju-88, He 115, Fw 200, Do 18 and Do 24 to the operational types (plus also the Heinkel rescue biplanes that were shot down)

An almost completely ignored aspect is also that raids were mounted on Britain by the Italian air force in which Fiat BR 20 bombers were escorted by CR 42 fighters to almost no effect whatsoever.

[wingnuts]

At a stretch you could include the Gloster Gladiator in the list for the RAF

Extect from Wiki:

"The Gloster Gladiator was in operational service with No. 247 Squadron RAF, stationed in Robourgh, Devon during the Battle of Britain. Although no combat sorties took place at the height of the aerial battles, No. 247 Gladiators intercepted a He 111 in late October 1940, without result. No. 239 Squadron RAF using Gladiators in an army cooperation role and No. 804 Squadron, Fleet Air Arm outfitted with Sea Gladiators were also operational during the Battle of Britain."

Gloster Gladiator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[kool kitty89]

THe British also hat Tomahawk I's, redirected from a French order after the armisice. But as they lacked armor and self-sealing tanks, they were not used in front line service. The Tomakawk I was equivelent to the P-40 (no letter, Just P-40).

Curtiss P-40
Curtiss Tomahawk

The first of the French-ordered H81-A1s flew on June 6, 1940, and a few were actually completed with French markings. However, before any of their H81-A1s could be delivered, France had surrendered. Britain agreed to take over the entirety of the French order, and gave the H81-A1 the name Tomahawk I in RAF service. RAF serials were AH741/AH840 and AH841/AH880.

In September of 1940, the USAAC agreed to defer deliveries of their P-40s so that the Tomahawk Is could be supplied to Britain as soon as possible. The first Tomahawk Is reached England in September of 1940. The two 0.5-inch machine guns in the nose were retained, but they were supplemented by four wing-mounted 0.303-inch Browning machine guns in place of the 7.5-mm FN-Brownings originally specified by the French. Such was the urgency of their delivery to Britain that many of the 140 machines still had French instruments and bore cockpit lettering in French when they arrived.

This was in the days before Lend-Lease, and so the aircraft had only RAF serial numbers and markings, and were not issued USAAC serials or designations. The Curtiss construction numbers were 14446/14545 and 14091/14130. RAF serials were AH741/AH880. At least three (AH774, AH793, and AH840) were retained in Canada but still retaining their RAF serials.

However, Britain quickly concluded that these planes were not suitable for combat, since they lacked armor protection for the pilot, armor-glass windshields, or self-sealing fuel tanks. Nevertheless, since a German invasion was feared to be imminent, they were actually issued to several operational squadrons.

However, the Hun never invaded England, and so the Tomahawk Is were used only for training roles within Britain. Overseas, the first Desert Air Force squadron to be equipped with Tomahawks was No. 112 which exchanged its Gloster Gladiators for the Curtiss fighter. No 112 Squadron became famous for its "shark's tooth" insignia on the engine cowling, and this scheme was later adopted by the American Volunteer Group in China

And on the Mohawk:
RAF Mohawk

Mohawks taken on strength by the Royal Air Force were refitted with British equipment, including 0.303-calibre Browning machine guns. The French throttles were replaced by throttles which operated in the "British fashion", i.e., were pushed forward to increase the power. The RAF decided that its Mohawks were not suitable for the European theater, and sent 72 of them to the South African Air Force (where they were flown by the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Squadrons which operated in East Africa), while others were flown by the 5 and 155th RAF squadrons based in India. At one time, eight Mohawks provided the sole fighter defense of North-East India, and the fighter remained operational on the Burma front until finally replaced by more modern types in December 1943.

[Flyboy2]

Also in use was the Short Sunderland which had a very interesting dogfight with 8 Ju-88 bombers known as the Battle of the Bay.

Germany used the Ju-88C in limited numbers. This was the most heavily armed fighter in the air over Britian. They also used the He-59 as Red Cross rescue planes.

[Marcel]

I have a rough idea, but am missing detailed info on France, the Netherlands, and the eastern european countries. Any suggestions as to internet sources are most welcome, as well as information.

//Adrian[/FONT]

On the Dutch D.XXI, see this thread: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...ice-15060.html (Fokker D.XXI in Dutch service).

[Jerry W. Loper]

Hej everybody,
I am a modeller trying to find out what other aircraft were in use during the Battle of Britain other than the 'classics' (you know, Spitfire, Hurricane, Bf-109, He-111, Do-17 etc. etc.), whether they were actually involved in combat or not. I am given to understand that a few early Mustangs were involved in the fighting, as well as some Kittyhawks (?). I am also very interested in any and all aircraft that were in use with all protagonists during the early years of the war, up to the Battle of Britain. I have a rough idea, but am missing detailed info on France, the Netherlands, and the eastern european countries. Any suggestions as to internet sources are most welcome, as well as information.
Cheers!
//Adrian

Late in the battle, there was at least one raid by Italian bombers and fighters. IIRC, the fighters were CR-42 biplanes; I don't remember the model of bombers. The RAF inflicted severe losses on this raid. Also, according to Derek Wood's and Derek Dempster's book The Narrow Margin, Grumman Martlets (F4F Wildcats) saw a little action, something I've never seen mentioned in any other book about the battle.

[kool kitty89]

From: F4F Wildcat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Martlet Mk.I
At the end of 1939 Grumman received a French order for 81 aircraft of model G-36A, to equip the new carriers Joffre and Painlevé. The main difference with the basic model G-36 was due to the unavailability for export of the two-stage supercharged engine of F4F-3. The G-36A was powered by the nine-cylinder, single-row R-1820-G205A radial engine, of 1,200 hp. This was combined with a Hamilton Standard constant-speed propeller. The first deliveries featured highly polished, shiny propeller blades.

The G-36A had also French instrumentation, radio, and gunsight. The throttle was modified to conform to French pre-war practice: the throttle lever was moved towards the pilot, (i.e., backward), to increase engine power. The armament was French, six 7.5mm Darne guns. The first G-36A was flown on 11 May 1940.

After the defeat of France, all contracts were taken over by Britain. The throttle was modified again, four 0.50 guns were installed in the wings, and most traces of the original ownership removed. The Martlets were modified for British use by Blackburn, which continued to do this for all later marks. British gunsights, catapult spools, and other items were installed. After initial attempts to fit British radio sets, it was decided to use the much superior American equipment.

The first ones entered service in August 1940, with No 804 squadron, then stationed at Hatson in the Orkneys.

In the European theater, the Wildcat scored its first combat victory on Christmas Day 1940, when a land-based Martlet (as the type was then known in British service) destroyed a Junkers Ju 88 bomber over the Scapa Flow naval base.[6] This was the first combat victory by a US-built fighter in British service in World War II.

A couple other pages, with some nice pics: Grumman Martlett Mk. I Reference Photos by Phil Evans
The Grumman Wildcat in FAA Service by Bruce Archer


A couple interesting differences between the Martlet Mk.I and the F4F-3:
-Instead of the 1,200 hp 14 cylinder 2-row Pratt and Whitney R-1830-76 or -90, the 9-cylinder Wright 1820-G-205 of similar power was used. (a due to the shorter length and signficantly larger diameter of the 1820 a shorter and wider cowling was used, giving the nose a less tapered look)

Also the 4x .50" Brownings were spaces widely apart (instead of in close pairs) on each wing. (possibly due to the conversion from the originally French specified 6x 7.5 mm armament)

[Njaco]

Late Sept and Oct. the Italians flew a couple sorties but I don't know which units at the moment.

[Negative Creep]

Also, according to Derek Wood's and Derek Dempster's book The Narrow Margin, Grumman Martlets (F4F Wildcats) saw a little action, something I've never seen mentioned in any other book about the battle.

They weren't in combat service until December 25th though, which is after the battle. Same with the Beaufighter

[magnu]

And one that is often forgotten Ju.86P 2 High altitude reconnaissance